Motor permobil F-5

[Marcelo]

Good evening, my 2016 Permobil F-5. How can I be sure that its engine is 4-pole?
And how to identify visually?

[Burgerman]

It isnt. Its 2 pole?
You can tell on a powerchair normally by the number of brushes.

We use the term 4 pole because in the wheelchair world the better, low impedance motors, typically 30 to 45mOhm are usually 4 pole motors. But that doesent have to be true. Its just that it normally is. So makes it easier to decide by looking.

So 4 pole is used as a proxy for low impedance which is what we really want.

I think permobil 2 pole motors are neither high impedance (a 2 pole motor is typically 100mOhm) or low (a 4 pole motor is usually around 30 to 45mOhm.) As they are 65mOhm I think? So are somewhere in between. Better than most 2 poles, worse than most 4 pole motors.

The 4 pole motors that dietz use on the slow 4mph chairs are also unusual in that they are high impedance in spite of being 4 pole motors.

[swalker]

My 2016 Permobil F5 has motors with 4 brushes each and appear to be 4 pole motors. Note that I am in the US. They may be different elsewhere.

[Burgerman]

You may well be right. I only saw 2 pole ones though. Permobils 2 pole ones are linix. They have wider than average brushes, so that they burn up less quickly I suppose.

What does your programmers motor impedance say about their impedance? 60 / 65? Or less? Less is good!

I just found a couple of F5 profiles that are 45mOhm. Look under motor. Those are almost definitely 4 pole. Maybe its just M3 that are 2 pole?

I looked at a coupple of M3 profiles. Those are 75 not 65... My memory was wrong.

So it appears that (probably!) the F3s are 2 pole and 75mOhm. The F5s are 4 pole and 45mOhm?

[Burgerman]

F3 is def 2 pole.
F5 is probably 4 pole. Another reason to buy th F5 over the F3 then.


youtu.be/vivuEJ6W1N4

[Marcelo]

My 2016 Permobil F5 has motors with 4 brushes each and appear to be 4 pole motors. Note that I am in the US. They may be different elsewhere.

Mine is American too

[Marcelo]

F3 is def 2 pole.
F5 is probably 4 pole. Another reason to buy th F5 over the F3 then.


youtu.be/vivuEJ6W1N4

I follow DEM's channel They know a lot, they know a lot, they're the coolest thing I know on YouTube, right?

[Marcelo]

F3 is def 2 pole.
F5 is probably 4 pole. Another reason to buy th F5 over the F3 then.


youtu.be/vivuEJ6W1N4

So there would have to be 4 wires at the motor input, right? I'll check that.
However, if it is 2, there may be an internal redistribution, right?

[Burgerman]

No. Always 2 main wires and 2 small brake release wires.

[Burgerman]

Brushes. 2. = 2 pole.
Brushes. 4. = 4 pole...

On his bench is a 2 pole.
And a 4 pole visible now!


youtu.be/WR-rGFkaC1k

[Marcelo]

Brushes. 2. = 2 pole.
Brushes. 4. = 4 pole...

On his bench is a 2 pole.
And a 4 pole visible now!


youtu.be/WR-rGFkaC1k

That's an authentic 4-pole motor

[Burgerman]

Yes. And also on his bench, is a 2 pole one.

[Burgerman]

4 pole. 4 brushes.

[Burgerman]

4 pole...

[Burgerman]

4 pole

AND

2 pole... Look carefully.

[Burgerman]

4 pole on my bed

[Marcelo]

4 pole on my bed

Thanks for the clarification bugigman Interesting that the 4-pole motor is shorter and wider.

[Burgerman]

Not always! Sometimes they are identical.

[ex-Gooserider]

The size shape of the motor is irrelevant, the only thing that counts is the NUMBER of brushes... On every chair motor I've ever seen (except the Invacare GB motors that don't use brushes) the brushes are replaceable, and sit under those caps on the side of the motor on the end opposite the gear box...

Just Count them!
4 caps, 90* apart = 4-pole
2 caps, 180* apart = 2-pole
If you can only see two of the caps and they are 90* apart, 4-pole, 180* apart, 2-pole....

ex-Gooserider