Help needed with choosing a new chair in the U.S

[fishinjunky]

I'm working on getting a new chair. My insurance is Medicare and Medicaid so needs to be a group 3 chair. I currently have a Bounder and I love it unfortunately I may not be able to get another Bounder. It's been the best chair for my situation. But my DME provider National Seating and Mobility is no longer offering it. I could try going through Numotion but I have heard horrible reviews. I don't rely on the DME for repairs. I just use them to order the chair.

Requirements
120A control system
Group 24 batteries
Rear wheel drive/ possibly hybrid
Programmer available
Tilt and recline
4 pole motors
Speed at least 6mph
Group 3 approved
Option for off road tires to be fitted


Options in the U.S

Quantum R-trak ( don't know if I can get a programmer even just a dealer version. I don't have the right help to swap control systems to R-net)
https://www.quantumrehab.com/quantum-po ... r-trak.asp

Invacare Aviva Storm RX ( flimsy and feels cheaply made. Linx electronics somewhat Programmable)
https://invacareamerica.com/2020/01/29/ ... iguration/

Amy Systems r3 Hybrid ( not rear wheel drive)
https://amylior.com/hybrid-traction-pow ... r3-series/

Unfortunately I don't have the help to make extensive modifications.

[martin007]

I don't understand why the catalog is so small in the USA...

[swalker]

I fear you are looking for something that does not exist on the market in the US.

The now discontinued (in the US) Magic Mobility Frontier V4 seems like it would have come close to what you are looking for. Perhaps you can find one used that would meet your needs.

If you want a new wheelchair, the options you listed are the only ones I know of in the US. Realistically, I think you will need to consider mid or front wheel drive wheelchairs if you want something new in the US market.

Steve

[Burgerman]

>>>Unfortunately I don't have the help to make extensive modifications.
Let them buy whatever mid or hybrid they want.
Can you define extensive?

Becase then you are free to use that while you get a 2nd chair.

Because if you can find someone with a few skills its trivial to make what you are looking for and can buy from other non US places where theres loads of rear drives available to look at - used. Or even new depending on budget. They dont cost telephone numbers here. Or the EU. You can buy even new ones online and get a good discount too.

You see this wreck???
This is the result of a couple of years landing from 4 inch curbs, use and abuse.
The rear motor mounts are bent... The tyres are not meant to be slicks on either end!
The front casters are also bent "sideways" from landing about a million wheelies badly.

Every time a chair gets to look like this they are basically knackered. So I totally strip. Then throw away motors, all bearing, all bolts, tyres, possibly wheels, upholstery and arms. I then ether replace or repair any bent or worn parts that are left.

Then I send those main frame parts off to the powder coater.
Buy new rims, tyres, (off road?) eBay but new Joystick or any electrical parts. New bolts in stainless, new axles, bearngs, etc. Then new upholstery, probably different to what it had before. And motors of choice.

When reassembled with CARE and every part better than stock and refurbed, powder coated it *is* a new chair only better than any you could by.
That typically costs about 1000 UK pounds, + any old junker.

OLD KNACKERERD WORTHLESS CHAIR:
Note left rear wheel mounting bent... Chair looks collapsed.
Note front caster bent sideways too...
This thing has knackered swingaway, wobbly worn out arms, joystick held together with tape, and has a hole in it. Batteries destroyed. Control system only 80A. Everything rusty and corroded. Holes in arm tops.

Then a bit of effort. My carer did the brawn I have the brain! I could never do any of this myself. But I know HOW.

Scroll down this page
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair2.htm
and
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair4.htm

And after a few weeks, about an hour each day as the refurbed parts arrived you end up with a chair thats on its 4th rebuild in 13 years. Thats better than NEW.

Finished
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair6.htm take a detailed look at the pics on that old page.

After that got tired and abused, it was stripped, rebuilt all over. As the one below...
Same chair ended up as this one too!

It started off as a red one in 97. I am still using it. Its literally as new today. 29 YEARS and about 6 total rebuilds, later.

I originally paid 500 for it. Used! I had another purple one that ended up as the BM2 in the same way. All cheaply. With NEW motors, loom, bolts, spacers, axles, wheels, tyres, control systems, joysticks, upholstery and batts every time. And the rest just blasted/powder coated etc.

Now its green.

[Burgerman]

If I were you, if only because R-Net and programability I would get 6.5 mph Amy hybrid. As long as you can get a programmer first.

[Burgerman]

I followed your hybrid amy link.

And I read this.

>>>>4-Pole motor options 6.5 mph (10 km/h) Std
>>>>8.5 mph (13.7 km/h) option max. user weight 250 lb (113 kg)

If you ask me that doesent go anywhere near far enough as a warning, simply because they are trying not to lose customers.
I have tested many 8mph motors. I have a set here now. Tested AMT and EMD and Linix 13kph/8mph or 8.5mph and they always have the exact same problem. They run out of torque so so easily.

In my hallway (note I am talking abot rear drive here) I attempt a turn in place. And am expecting a spirited linear responce due to my programming. My chairs normally just directly follow the stick. I EXPECT the chair to follow the joystick. Now you wont "feel" this non linearity or hesitation with stock hovercraft programming because its all so vague and delayed anyway that you really cant tell what the hell is really happening. So, now I turn. Every last 8mph chair runs out of torque, or reaches its torque maximum limit, as it hits that 120A limit (I watch it do so on screen). The chair MAY or may not actually turn. Usually it does, but its slowed and we wait... And linearity has gone out the window. On odd occasions it will just stall and then move a couple of seconds later if I push the stick forwards or backwards too.

And... When climbing a steep slope, steering becomes very "sloppy" or vague. Or it wont steer at all without stopping.

So I think that for most users a 6 to 7 mph 120A system with correct programming is the best balance.

[fishinjunky]

BM, I agree I go off road an up steep hills and I've had bad experience with high speed motors. I like the 6mph motors with the weight reduction of lithium gives me a little more speed without compromising the torque.
I was thinking the same about the Amy chair. I may get it an then spend time rebuilding my Bounder. The Bounder isn't for everyone it's a pretty niche chair but I like it for my situation. I think having that Amy chair as my daily driver an the Bounder for backup and off road would be good. I'm also going to look at some used rwb chairs like you mentioned
Fortunately I found someone that can help me an can take directions although I know my limitations on knowledge which is why I'm very grateful for this forum an information an all your help.

[Burgerman]

Thats settled then!
One warning though. That bounder has a price list of parts that are about 10 times higher than what I would pay for more normal chairs. Motors for eg are crazy price! After a few years use, I just throw a set away, same with rims, tyres, upholstery, etc. (complete with brake, gearbox etc) and fit new. That sort of thing would cost you the same as a 2 year old car on a bounder!

[emilevirus]

BUT you can get gears, chains, springs, tires, etc VERY cheap as they're common parts. You have to be smart.

[fishinjunky]

BM, I just saw the price for new Bounder motors holy shit that's crazy expensive. Definitely going to be looking at purchasing a good used chair with common motors that i can rebuild. Probably just give my Bounder a partial rebuild.
It's really unfortunate. The Bounder is a solid built chair and the company has been great to work with in my experience. But some issues are really holding them back like motors, chains, weight, battery box location. If they could offer a chair using common motors with a gearbox no chain, relocate the battery box and reduce the chairs weight. They could get away from it being a really niche chair.

[shirley_hkg]

How about to have the motors rebuilt.

[Burgerman]

I would say that is the only option with those. But that price cant be the real price. Thats a special price organised to rip off the tax or insurance payer so that all the crony capitalism, back handers, and over regulation all works as they wanted. $$$$$$$.

In a real capitalist free market no business or indivudual woul ever dream of paying those crazy prices. If a motor cost that much they woul find alternative suppliers, or change the design to use some other motors. But if you look that same crzy overprice applies to many of the parts. So its not a "real" market price. Its artificially "fixed" to benefit the chair manufacturer/insurer/someone and all gets paid by the gov (the tax payer) or insurance (the tax payer) eventualy. Its obviously corrupt on purpose, designed that way based of Legislation and things like FDA rules or whatever beaurocracy they are using to make that stuff happen. Theres some official legal corruption happening there somewhere. It also appeears to be limiting your choice to a few of the most popular options too. So no / little rear drive for e.g.