PINNED NHS supplied Dietz Rehab Style Chair. You want one!!!

[iainsherriff]

BM's 120 tyre is 45mm offset, from mounting face to barrel end of adaptor.

Instead, this is the offset of a narrower 3.50-8 tubeless tyre and rims, that most people use.

thanks

[shirley_hkg]

Yes. I suppose I aught to contact Amy and order some cells

I've installed a pair of these in a Sango Advance.

220mm headroom for EVE 230Ah cells is cautiously possible.

[Burgerman]

That is the standard Group 24 FT (Flat Top) BCI battery dimension that should be fitted in most of our high end rehab type chairs.

The terminal bolt head (either 1/4 inch or M6) add a further 6mm. And the thickness of a washer, spring washer, and ring terminal adds a further 2.5mm.

So installed height in a chair is actually 218.5mm.

Heres the LITHIUM measurements:
With digital micrometer.

53.77 thick at edge, cant measure centre... Looks super flat.
73.88 wide and flat.
204.62 to flat top face
16.22 termital heght from to face of cell.

220.84 total tall with thread terminal height

Lithiums we are talking about. 6X the range, measured 244Ah, cheap as lead...
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 84#p204379

[shirley_hkg]

Interested to know how the flange adaptor and rims turn out on their host.

[Burgerman]

We wo t find out for a good while. They are not for the NHS supplied chair... But for one I dont yet own!

[ICEUK]

BM, do you have any paperwork you would be willing to share that shows your local wcs supplied you with the dietz chair.

my local wcs and icb have refused to supply me with a dietz chair as dietz are not on the national wcs suppliers network.

thx in advance

[Burgerman]

Well thats what mine said too. So I suggested they better damned well get it on there!

How about a screenshot of an email during the process of me correcting their messed up prescription form several times.
And in the end I made them allow a 6mph option at my expense which I decided not to pay for so it is an option.

I have several order sheets here that I fixed before letting them get it wrong. Dont allow them to tell you what they can supply, or allow them to assess you. Do it yourself. Allow them to agree.

[Burgerman]

THIS explains what they were doing after I turned up and dished out a massive accurate description of their incompetance and lazyness in their offices at the hospital.

So now they are giving me details of exactly what they did literally minute by minute! You gotta laugh. They CAN move fast if they get enough of a bollocking.

It also explains that its not a part of their normal procurement nonsense.
This also shows how high they can jump when they are forced to actually do any work. And GET IT on their normal supply network. Took 2 days to do that.

Was quite funny watching them all squirm in their reception area as I explaind rather loudly how incompetant they were.

[Burgerman]

And the reason that they sent me the order form rather than atempting to do it themselves is this:

From: GYWHEELCHAIRS (NORTHERN LINCOLNSHIRE AND GOOLE NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2024 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: Personal Wheelchair Budget

Good Morning John,

Please see document attached. Can you please confirm that you approve of the specification in the document attached so that Louise can then get the rep to generate a quote.

REPLY
The thing you attached is basically a TWO of lines of text. Its not an order form.

An Order form, or a prescription order form, looks like the one that I have attached ON THE REPLY as an example. I have ordered many chairs, and can accurately fill out a real order form and know exactly what I need/want.
In this case the example one I have attached its for sunrise Q 500 chair.
THAT is a proper order form.

If you want to get the order right, since you seem to have forgotten the two separate, 2 hour long sessions with you and the various company reps, (which was the entire point of them being there) with all the questions and detailed answers we already did. Complete with my own printed data sheet I handed you, then lets strt again and bring a proper order form around for the Dietz chair so that I can go through it in detail and fill it in correctly.

Or if you are going to attempt to make all these decisions yourselves, then it will be your problem when its incorrect.

They decided that it wasnt worth the argument... So once I revised the prescription order form, of which I have a copy if you need it they ordered it.
They WILL try and do this in the background, without having any idea what the hell all the options mean or work together to justify their existence. They really dont like me! But if you dont bully them, and force them to get off their asses literally nothing happens month after month. The consequence of a socialist NHS.

[ICEUK]

Hi BM,

Is it possible that you can send men a copy of the order prescription form?

Thx for the help it's much appreciated.

[Burgerman]

Yep...

[ICEUK]

BM, do you know what will be the width of the dietz chair with the adaptors fitted and Duro tyres?


Thx John

[Burgerman]

Since the stock tyres are 3.00 inch. And the inside edge will be a little closer to the motors, and are 120mm wide we will call them 115mm. (But its a little narrower really) Thats 4.52 inches. So each side will be 1.52 inches wider than stock. So 3 inches wider overall.

Stock width is across wheels is??? Dont know without looking it up or measuring it, but its narrower than the width across the arms at least on my chair. With an 18 wide cushion/arms setup. So its not really a 3 inch width increase.

And the 110/80 tyres also fit the 3.5j rims. So another 20mm (40mm both sides) or almost an inch (1.5 overall) narrower. But a fraction taller diameter. Both look good. The 110 will not work with the guards I think.

[shirley_hkg]

Which rim width to choose for 110-80 tyre ?
3.5" / 275" ?

They sell 110/80 with 2.75j rim below.

I think they are right, especially when we deliberately inflate it low pressure for comfort .

[Burgerman]

They look pretty good on 3.5J rims though...

[Kande_ian]

But which would you expect to give the better ride at low pressures having tried so many permutatins over the years?

[Burgerman]

I dont know.
The wider rim will run at a lower pressure, the narrower one will need more but will otherwise be more pliant. So swings and roundabouts.

[shirley_hkg]

110/80-8 tubeless on a Dietz finally.

[Kande_ian]

Very happy with Shirley's adapters and the wheels - this week will hopefully see a "downgrade" from teeth rattling solid castor tyres to tubed. T/L would be nice if anyone can recommend suitable hubs - I nearly lost the will to live searching for some and decided we might as well try tubes first.

Failed to add a small mp4 of the happy owner getting some fresh air and feeling useful as the autumn leaf fall arrives early, so here are a few stills instead. I can't understand why a drawbar isn't a standard fitment.

[shirley_hkg]

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 1&start=30

[Burgerman]

It, she, the rims, tyres all looking good! But no centrecaps!
Is it a WCS chair?

Measure diameter
deduct 1 mm.
Order 2 stainless steel disks cut from 1.5 or 2mm thick (measure I dont remember!). laser cut - many places online.
Drill 8mm hole in centre or order them cut this way...
Use the load spreading washers (M8 and M8 Stainless allen bolts) to hold these and rims on, ebay etc. 5 per wheel.

Heres some - as yet unpolished disks - as they arrived.

And the Salsa chair doesent need a centre bolt. So no need to drill a hole...

[Kande_ian]

Hi BM I've just seen your message.

No this isn't a WCS chair - she has one of those, a little Quantum Kozmo Go with a near dead battery that is fit for indoor use only. WCS basically said "getting outdoors is optional - we'll give you something for indoors and if it capable of going outside it'll be a bonus" and offered a choice of the Kozmo or a Quickie 100 with swing-out footrests that knocked lumps out of the fixtures and fittings during a weeks trial. (We do know better now having read more on this site and won't be taking them at their word again.)

I doubt that WCS would like what I've done to the Dietz - but my wife is much happier with the pneumatic tyres all round, though less so with my reprogramming it along your preferred lines - I found it much improved but in retrospect I should have started off by limiting the max speed to a steady walk until she got used to it, as her hand control is poor and tends towards On or Off!

I saw your stainless wheel centres when I was getting the hubs and wheels from Shirley but they are low down on my to-do list - I have 2mm stainless sheet and tools to make them when I can be arsed -and I do like your conical washers, they are a nice touch.

My next priority is to improve things indoors.
When looking for a chair I found a Dietz Slimline MWD model with raise, tilt and catapult locally that was too good a bargain to resist, and bought it for parts (I've already had the back off it to replace the complicated and not very suitable V-trak system that was on the other one when I bought it). Having thought a bit more about it, I've decided it is too good to lie idle and that it should make quite a nice short wheelbase RWD indoor chair - once I've removed it's rear castors and arms, given the suspension something else to react against and made some anti-tip provision - all of which I am positive that WCS would not like. If anyone has a spare Sego (or Kozmo) back - I'm interested, because it is currently wearing the V-trak and it doesn't fit very well. I thought I'd got one on ebay a few weeks ago but it turned out to have been double booked.

If nothing else, once I've done playing I think we'll have a much better idea what she actually requires to meet her needs when the time comes to reassess things with WCS but I am very glad that we are in a position where she doesn't have to rely on them, for all the reasons you've rehearsed previously. I find it absurd that so many chairs are apparently designed only for use in some utopian world where kerbs and potholes don't exist.

[Burgerman]

though less so with my reprogramming it along your preferred lines - I found it much improved but in retrospect I should have started off by limiting the max speed to a steady walk until she got used to it, as her hand control is poor and tends towards On or Off!

You need to configure those approx settings to start with. And then ONLY start on speed 1.

Go through every setting there is and set everything on 1 to exactly what she likes and can cope with, only change the MINIMUM settings as the others relate to speed 5. Dont touch any turn acc or dec settings.

Then when she is completely happy at speed 1 - super slow indoors only set the following to a low figure, dont touch any of the minimums! And then test speed 5. OUTDOORS.
Forward acceleration. low...
Forward decel (that should be set as low as poss anyway as back stick is the brake)
Turn Speed set low... Set to whatever she is happy with when turn in place
Reverse speed - set same as the minimum, test individually to see what she want this set to outdoors.
Dont touch turn accel, unless you change turn acc to 90, not less.

Non of this can work if she doesent have joystick in the right position and her hand on the side of the pod. And really it requires good/normal dexterity too.

[Kande_ian]

Yes, that the way I'm going now, it's already clear she isn't hankering for speed, so I'm working through increasing the predictability of response in the existing slow, med, fast profiles.

[Burgerman]

You cannot adjust the medium.
You adjust the 5 speed settings (ignore the minimum ones) and the 1 speed settings (only the minimums!)

Then the 2,3 and 4 speeds are averaged across the speed range.

So then, speed 3 will be exactly half way between the "Minimum turn speed", and "turn speed" for e.g.

Thats the point. It you set speed 5 for what you want OUTDOORS and speed 1 for what you want INDOORS then every setting in between is a mix of these. A sliding scale from slow to fast. So you never need more profles than this one..

[sparkerted]

Not sure if anybody has done the lifepo4 install to the Dietz Sango Advance RWD, but we have just done a dry run with 8 Amy 230A cells and they will go in, we believe with a clearance of 10mm without trimming the stud.

[Burgerman]

Good info!

[shirley_hkg]

https://youtu.be/hc2K9ZP-UP0?si=rU-nzxCyGB5WFYQ-

Same thing happened to friend's Dietz.

I'd blame the design of this swing away mechanism. It wiggles the cable 180 degrees at 2 spots, every time you set joystick aside.

Old fashion quad link design seems don't have this issue.

[rover220]

https://youtu.be/hc2K9ZP-UP0?si=rU-nzxCyGB5WFYQ-

Same thing happened to friend's Dietz.

I'd blame the design of this swing away mechanism. It wiggles the cable 180 degrees at 2 spots, every time you set joystick aside.

Old fashion quad link design seems don't have this issue.

seen it happen on all the manufacturers that use rnet.

[Burgerman]

Never had one do that yet. But I suggest you do as I do and monitor the bay and grab a few different length bus cables when you see them appear at sensible prices.

Not related...
Just watched dans video. I see he has his joystick mounted way too low to properly cup his hand around the casing as reference, and the switches mounted in the way to prevent that too. And then to control the stick with thumb and finger. And has a big blob thing as a stick... Theres no way on earth its its possible to control a properly programmed chair that way. Now his disability may need things that way. But I am just saying...