PINNED - R-Net for dummies

[Burgerman]

Dont think any of mine are removable.

Didnt force them, But seem pretty damned firm. (CJSM2 sunrise, 5 here from different sources inc one from you and 2 fitted to sunrise chairs.)


EDIT/ADDED:
Just tested 2 that are easy to reach in a box. Not removable. As far as I can tell! If I pull, or lever, any harder I will likely break something.

[rover220]

Dont think any of mine are removable.

Didnt force them, But seem pretty damned firm. (CJSM2 sunrise, 5 here from different sources inc one from you and 2 fitted to sunrise chairs.)


EDIT/ADDED:
Just tested 2 that are easy to reach in a box. Not removable. As far as I can tell! If I pull, or lever, any harder I will likely break something.

They are removable. Need levers at 180 degrees apart but they do come out.

[Burgerman]

Good to know.

I watched the vid by dan totally normal, that shows that some are not removable. After trying to remove a few of mine in vain with as much force as I dare I thought they must be soldered like the ones in his video.

Can't see it now, someone will likely post a link. But unless I need to, not going to force it to find out! He did that, and broke a metal retaining clip on the inside. And after dismantling found out it was soldered.

[emilevirus]

Are spade connectors good enough to be used on a chair? Will they get lose and disconnect? I've been searching R-Net motor cables but they're expensive.

[Burgerman]

Most motors come with the cables built in. But inside those plastic plugs are just 4 spade connectors. I have used those in te past without issues. I have also reused the plastic plugs casings from old motors. And if you contact PG Drives they will sell you the connectors.

[emilevirus]

Most motors come with the cables built in. But inside those plastic plugs are just 4 spade connectors. I have used those in te past without issues. I have also reused the plastic plugs casings from old motors. And if you contact PG Drives they will sell you the connectors.

How? Everytime I email them they just never reply. Also, I found motor cables on eBay with a 120A controller. They're 12AWG. Does it make a difference vs 8awg cables?

[Burgerman]

I dont really understand how you found motor cables as they are normally soldered into the inside of the motor casing.

They are generally not as big as they would really want to be. Thats because in order to pull the full 120A then the motors internal windings would also need to be more substantial with more mass.

What happens is this.
Motors stalled. It CAN pull up to 120A from the controller. Only for a couple of seconds to dig itself out of a hole. During that few seconds the cables get hot. You can actually smell them, like a burned PVC smell. During this time the motor windings are also overloaded. They also have to suffer 120A and are not turning if stalled, and even if turning slowly theres almost no forced airflow inside the case. Once ROLLING that motor is spinning at 4 or 5 thousand RPM. That shoves a lot of air around inside the motor and cools the copper armature and heats up the air and the outer casing. That loses heat to the enviroment.

If the chair is stalled, pulling 120A from a motor for long it will burn out the motor before the cables melt. So the CONTROLLER watches for several things.
YOU set in programming how much boost current is allowed. And for how long UP TO 10 seconds.
You set the "normal" current level. This is typically 80 to 100. This current is dropped to a lower figure after a few seconds too due to
a) time based settings
b) stall settings in seconds
c) temperature.
ALL three are used to limit current (the temp one is the mosfet temperature, which is used as a proxy for motor temperature as these will heat up when loaded too)
So the too thin motor cables are protected! As long as not "too thin"...

Also consider this.
A motor on a 24V system, that is connected to a 120A controller may be 350 up to maybe 500 watts rated motors. But at 24V x 120A = 2880 watts.
So at stall, or when doing steep ramps, curbs, turn in place, steep hills you are feeding a 350 watt motor nearly 3 killowatts... This is why they must be "rolled back" after a few seconds, and why the chair manufacturers get away with smaller wires than you would expect.

Also WHO are you emailing???

[Burgerman]

I dont really understand how you found motor cables as they are normally soldered into the inside of the motor casing.

Heres at least a hundred.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=wheelchair+mo ... ges&t=ffab

[emilevirus]

My motors just have Anderson 50A so I need R-Net to Anderson. I email cwig.us@curtisswright.com

[Burgerman]

Get a couple of old motors, chop off the cables. Throw the motors. Add andersons to the cables.


Or just make up some cabes. With anderson / blade connectors.

You are emailing a us service centre not the manufacturer in britain. Also try the korean or the other worldwide suppliers if the US one ignores you. But you must order exactly the right thing or they will likely ignore...

[emilevirus]

This is it right?
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/TE- ... Ifeg%3D%3D

[Burgerman]

A motor to power module plug?

Did you ever look at one?
I dont recognise that part you linked to.

They have 4 blade connectors. 2 large, 2 small.

[emilevirus]

That's the brand listed on R Net docs and it looks similar to the connector I have on my chair right now. It has 4 "teeth" spring loaded.
PGDT docs says

The power connectors for the R-net Power Module are specially designed by Curtiss-Wrightfor wheelchair applications. The
crimps are standard AMP Timer parts but the plastic housings are custom

The one linked above is AMP Timer and is rated for much higher current than the one you said.

[Burgerman]

The current on all of them are the same. Because the actual connections are the same. They are 3/8th (or 10. 6?mm) or 1/4 (6.3mm). And are just flat blate connectors. When in a rectangular block, such as on a powerchair motor they are arguably less capable as they cool worse.

The current rating can be 1000A for a short time. 30A continuously, or whatever a manufacturer chooses to claim or write on them. It all just depends on how well they are cooled, the temp rating and cable size used, and the length of time tat current exists for.

If they are bespoke items, just use 4 blade connectors, heat shrink, properly crimped or better still soldered. I have done it before no problem.

[emilevirus]

So the ISM has outputs for left & right lights. Can I parallel those outputs?

[Burgerman]

Can you parallel which ones?

Since these all have seperate voltage (pulsewidth) circuits and current monitors I wouldnt. What do you hope to gain?

[emilevirus]

The normal lights. Manual says 21w each side. All my headlights/taillights are 1 cable. They're all turning off/on at the same time, regardless of the side. I don't get why there are 2 outputs. For indicators I get it but for headlights why have 2 outputs?

[Burgerman]

You will need to split them. Or run from 1 side, and add a relay.

[Burgerman]

Page 45 and 46 for wiring...

https://industrial.curtisswright.com/si ... 981-14.pdf

AND:

The power connectors for the R-net Power Module are specially designed by Curtiss-Wright for wheelchair applications. The
crimps are standard AMP Timer parts but the plastic housings are custom. These connectors can be purchased from Curtiss-
Wright or from Greenstock directly.

Greenstock will also provide a pre-assembled cable service. Contact details for Greenstock
are as follows: Greenstock Tel: +44 (0) 0845 2570444 http://www.greenstock.co.uk

Or save this:

[emilevirus]

So I put a 24v relay but the light option doesn't pop up on my joystick. Must I enable it somewhere in the config? I got the ISM module on eBay and light ports say "NA" rather than lights. Is it possible that lights are just not available with this module? I'd have thought with OEM access I could enable them but I dont see an option other than wattage. I have assigned the softkey 1 to lights.

[Burgerman]

In britain and other places in europe I think too, it works like this...

Any chair that is faster than 4 mph such as 6 or 8 has to have lights by law. So I never saw and ISM6 that didnt do lights. Technically theres ISM6L and non L.
L is for lights. NA is Not Available. Someone saved some money...

In the same way all our joysticks on chairs faster than 4 mph also have lights options.

So I dont know where you are what the laws are. But yes you may have a non lights one.

See here:
Lights, hazards, left and right idicators on screen.
https://industrial.curtisswright.com/si ... screen.png

[Burgerman]

And

https://industrial.curtisswright.com/en ... ing-module

[Burgerman]

What you have is this.
https://unicare.au/products/204177-controller-intelligent-seating-module-(ism)-without-lights-penny-and-giles-rnet

An ISM. What you needed was an ISM6-L.

There are also ISM4-L and ISM2-L if you look hard enough. Why? Beats me... They leave stuff out so it saves about 3 dollars.

[emilevirus]

Wow that's dumb. Spades are actually there so it must be just disabled in software or something. OR both left and right must have a load/resistance maybe?

[Burgerman]

I have bought 4 on ebay from various char brands. I already have 3 fitted to chairs. So theres 7 here in total now.
Every one bought at random, all are 6 channel (12 directions) seating, and lights, indicators and hazards. ISM-6 L ones as shown on the r-net site. You must be especially lucky.

[emilevirus]

Looks like it's pretty common in the US.
Seems to be all with no lights.
It says "NA" which I suppose means not available? https://www.ebay.com/itm/136630001372?_ ... 26.m162918
This one is actually labelled light: https://www.ebay.com/itm/267332972008

[Burgerman]

Take a look at the image.

The NUMBER OF CHANNELS in this case 6 (all I ever saw!) and the L for lights.
If it says 4 and no L its a 4 channel seating only unit.
If like all the ones I ever saw i says 6L then its got lights, and 6 seating channels.

At least I think so.

And likewise, the power modules are available with many different power levels. The 120A ones say 120 in the same bottom right corner.

[Burgerman]

this one 6 channels. No L. So no lights.

[Burgerman]

Also notice mine all say made in ENGLAND on them. The ones you are linking say CHINA. Thats strange!

[emilevirus]

Then the sellers don't know what they're talking about because they all say "seating & lights"