Lift or no lift...

[faico_26]

Driving with the seat raised is nice, nice feeling, very safe.
Tilt is nice too.
Seat lift is slow though, I have to get used to it.
Due to high seat position, it is not easy to get close to tables and the armrests and joystick touch the table too. I have the armrests in very low position, not very comfortable, but it is the only way to get close to my desk.[/quote]
Driving outside: quite fast and responsive chair, but I feel the suspension very hard, it is like there is no suspension, but I drive fast with small tires. I have to check if suspension can be adjusted. I think the shocks are coilover, so it should be adjustable. I’m not sure, I need to check them.

[Burgerman]

PM 90-L

https://www.warmex.net/en/r-net-motorco ... 90-max-90a

Longer. Taller. Deeper. Its bigger in all 3 directions. At least going by images. I dont have one. But its cheaper. Partly on chairs that have a single actuator because it can do this built in. No seating module needed. Making it a budget option but low power. With more than a single actuator for seating you then need a special seating module that only works with this PM90 it is limited in capability.


PM 120

https://www.warmex.net/en/onderdelen/ro ... 0-max-120a

Smaller in all 3 dimensions I think. Just look at the pictures. It does not do any actuators natively. It needs a common ism-6L seating module. That module also does lights. Because it is going to give 30A greater torque the battery needs to be capable. The battey loom needs to be bigger gauge. And a bigger fuse is used. If the battery is small, or not very low impedance they it will perform no better than the 90A one.

[JohnnyUK]

Driving outside: quite fast and responsive chair, but I feel the suspension very hard, it is like there is no suspension

There didn't appear to be any real suspension I could see on the WCS demo Q300R, another reason for bigger wheels with the option to swap to pneumatic in future. I expect a hard bone shaking ride at 6mph over rough ground. I think I prefer MWD indoors I find mine very easy to manoeuvre. I want RWD for outside where MWD is hopeless

Driving with the seat raised is nice, nice feeling, very safe

I wouldn't drive far with seat raised as most chairs wobble like a jelly, are you saying the Q300R is rigid when elevated?

Smaller in all 3 dimensions I think. Just look at the pictures. It does not do any actuators natively. It needs a common ism-6L seating module. That module also does lights. Because it is going to give 30A greater torque the battery needs to be capable. The battey loom needs to be bigger gauge. And a bigger fuse is used. If the battery is small, or not very low impedance they it will perform no better than the 90A one.

Well it can't be cost that stops WCS offering the PM120 otherwise they'd offer it as an option with huge upgrade cost like everything else. I've ordered the ISM6-L so would it still be feasible to swap to the 120A? What size cable would be required on the battery loom? Do you know what size cables are used a standard?

Am I correct in thinking that it's not worth fitting a 120PM unless I get over the battery limitation which can only be done by converting to lithium? There's no point putting lipstick on a pig so I don't think it'll be worth investing any more money on it, we'll see when it arrives

[Burgerman]

Battery may be problematic with 120A power module. They are problematic in that size without!

Straight swap? Yes. Bigger loom, just order a battery loom from any sunrise 120A chair.

But you are light. Should be OK as it is maybe.

I wouldn't drive far with seat raised as most chairs wobble like a jelly, are you saying the Q300R is rigid when elevated?

They wobble when lowered slightly less. Its amazing how they can design a seat elevator to be so weak and wobbly and so damned heavy all at the same time. And its not just sunrise that are this capable.

[JohnnyUK]

Battery may be problematic with 120A power module. They are problematic in that size without!

Straight swap? Yes. Bigger loom, just order a battery loom from any sunrise 120A chair.

But you are light. Should be OK as it is maybe

Thank you that's reassuring feedback

[faico_26]

“Driving with the seat raised is nice, nice feeling, very safe


I wouldn't drive far with seat raised as most chairs wobble like a jelly, are you saying the Q300R is rigid when elevated?“
I mean I can drive maximum at 4,5kph (function C-Me). It is for indoors but I feel it very safe.

[faico_26]

“There didn't appear to be any real suspension I could see on the WCS demo Q300R, another reason for bigger wheels with the option to swap to pneumatic in future. I expect a hard bone shaking ride at 6mph over rough ground. I think I prefer MWD indoors I find mine very easy to manoeuvre. I want RWD for outside where MWD is hopeless”
Well, there are 2 shocks with springs and there are 2 hole positions for the shocks, I have to check if the second hole lets the chair to lower the seat height a little bit. And I also have to check if I can modify the spring tension to soften the suspension.

[Burgerman]

When the rear drive is configured properly, as in not as long as an oil tanker its actually better and shorter than mid drive indoors. Thats the problem. Stock chairs are all nose heavy, too long, etc. With drive wheels behind you swinging the front end around with you sat over it.

2 extremes to show the difference

STOCK chairs are like this:

Drive wheel has less than half the weight. Complete chair about 100 yards long.

Properly configired chais are like this:

Drive wheel has 75% of the mass. Complete chair 42 inches end to end. Inc footplate.

If I reverse to a wall my HEAD is the first thing to hit. I can easily turn into a doorway from a corridor. Steers lighly. No ass hanging around to reverse into stuff in confined spaces. The complete chairs length is 6 inches LESS than my own seated shape seen from the side. Thats better than any mid drive.

[faico_26]

When the rear drive is configured properly, as in not as long as an oil tanker its actually better and shorter than mid drive indoors. Thats the problem. Stock chairs are all nose heavy, too long, etc. With drive wheels behind you swinging the front end around with you sat over it.

2 extremes to show the difference

STOCK chairs are like this:

Image2.jpg

Properly configired chais are like this:

700_9310++.JPG

If I reverse to a wall my HEAD is the first thing to hit. I can easily turn into a doorway from a corridor. Steers lighly. No ass hanging around to reverse into stuff in confined spaces. The complete chairs length is 6 inches LESS than my own seated shape seen from the side. Thats better than any mid drive.

Yes, your chair is really well designed and built. One of the things I didn’t like about the Invacare Aviva (European version) is the CG so forward even if it can be slightly adjusted. The Q300R allows to move the whole seat quite back. And moreover I can adjust the length of the seat so I can be seated even more back.

[Burgerman]

Yes I had to do this with every one of my invcare, salsaR, q700R, BM1 and 2 and 3 and the Dietz chair. All my chairs are this way, non were usable as stock.

[faico_26]

Yes I had to do this with every one of my invcare, salsaR, q700R, BM1 and 2 and 3 and the Dietz chair. All my chairs are this way, non were usable as stock.

Yes, your way of building your chairs is a reference for me. For example when you wrote that when you drive backwards the first thing to touch the wall is your head because you are seating in a back position. I have to make some adjustments which hopefully will let me move the CG even more back.

[Burgerman]

As long as you are aware that while its shorter, drives and steers better it WILL be more tippy. Wear a crash hat!

[faico_26]

As long as you are aware that while its shorter, drives and steers better it WILL be more tippy. Wear a crash hat!

Yes, I’m aware of that.

[fishinjunky]

I would like to have a spare chair with lift but I don't think I would want it on my daily driver. BM do any of your chairs have lift?

[Burgerman]

3 of them. And 2 without at the moment.

Salsa Custom...

Dietz Sango Adanced

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Q700R