Right caster not swiveling properly even after total fix

[Jay_x]

My right caster has not been swiveling properly for months. Sent it to get repaired, they cleaned and lubed it up. Still not swiveling properly. They ordered parts and Today they replaced all the inner parts.

Guess what? No difference at all. Still not swiveling. How can that be? I mean what else is there to replace? When I go backwards it flips till its about half way, then just sticks and won't swivel all the way. I have to go back and forth and finally it will swivel all the way. I don't get it.

[Jay_x]

actually its the left caster, sorry, but that shouldn't make a difference.

[Jay_x]

In fact, after they lubed it, the caster was working semi okay. Not perfect but it was mostly drivable. Now today after they replaced all the caster innards it back to being terrible. Borderline undrivable. I don't get it.

[Burgerman]

Is this mid, front or rear drive.

By swivel you mean that it points a different way to what it should as you turn etc?

Lift chair off deck or caster at least, is it free to rotate?
If not find whatever stops it. Bent or corroded shaft, bearing, etc. Fix or replace till it does...
If it already moves freely, then obviously its not loaded, as in no weight on it or above the ground by a tiny amount. Thats also obvious by anyone that touches it as it will swivel easily around while chair is sat on the deck normally. In which case your suspension arms or whatever it has, are siezed or the suspension itself is damaged or siezed. Also super obvious.

Or its hitting footplae or somethig.

All this really should be super obvious not only to the person fixing it but to you as a user. You should be able to tell which of these 3 scenarios it is just by moving the chair around while sat in it and YOU or someone else watching it.

Your "engineer" is a moron. Seems to be normal in this industry. Any child that can can fix a bycicle could diagnose and fix this.

[Jay_x]

Its an Invacare Aviva RX storm RWD

so if I am going forward then reverse, the casters are supposed to flip around. The right side flips fine, but hte left side flips half way and then stick there. Then when it finally flips it doesn't want to flip the other way when I go back forward again. Its just sticky, doesn't like flipping around like its supposed to do. And no its not hitting the footplate.

Also I don't have a way of lifting the chair up.

[Jay_x]

here is a pic. So imagine I am going backwards as we are looking at it the left caster is fine, but look at the right one, its stuck half way,

[Burgerman]

No way to lift it up?
Drive the good caster up onto something. A book... A pavement. Someones foot...

Then see if it turns freely. If not then fix it

Also if its not quite touching the ground, maybe because a rear suspension is siezed or collapsed, or set too short then it wont have any weight on it. So it will never turn to face the right way. In which case when its "stuck" you will be able to turn it freely by hand.

There are no other scenarios.
So any repairer with an IQ above room temperature will easily be able to see the cause in seconds - its really that simple - and then fix it.

Unless of course you are just not moving the chair far enough...
Do a video.

[biscuit]

Your could test if your castor turns freely with no weight on it. Drive to a kerb or small step, stop diagonally with that castor hanging over the step and check it if turns.

Then, looking at pages 42 of the service manual: There are 2 bearings on the vertical shaft. They have to be the correct way up:
"CAUTION!
Incorrect reassembly can damage bearings and cause castors to come off
Single-row angular ball bearing rings are not identical on both sides. There is only one correct way to insert them.
– Bearings must always be installed so that narrow borders of the ball bearings are facing each other (inside).
– Steering head bolts and nuts must always be pressing against wide (outside) border of ball bearings.
Otherwise, bearings will be pressed apart and damaged by bolts."
Did the workshop do that? I wouldn't bet on it, I'd guess they more likely replaced it with the same things the same way up they found them whether right or wrong. Especially so because the manual is a tad vague about which way up is actually correct.

The service manual also has a lot to say about taking off the castors. It is in the index, but is useless for this problem.

[Burgerman]

Thats all the repair guys problem. And you would need to be retarded to fit these bearings upside down!

If it turns properly and freely and no excess free play then its fine. Give it a spin, and a wiggle. Should be smooth and turn with light force and no "rattle"...

Below pic...
This is what happens to shiny steel high carbon steel bearings that are used everywhere on wheelchairs.
Rubber seals removed here so you can see the RUST and CORROSION! Our bearings dont wear out in most cases they corrode and fail.
They SHOULD be packed with grease and shiny clean.

This is why I throw them away from new and fit cheap eBay stainless steel ones. Food grade, marine grade. You can leave those in a bucket of sea water for a year and they look brand new afterwards... So they do not die.

But if it turns freely and moves smoothly without excessive free play then this is not the problem. And they have already been replaced?

[biscuit]

Thats all the repair guys problem.

Nope.

you would need to be retarded to fit these bearings upside down!

An apprentice. Or other wheelchair workshop mechanic.

[Burgerman]

But they are angular contact. The caster fork would fall out when you lift the chair...

In any case its simple to see if theres and issue or not. I could tell from a short video on the opposite side of the planet. Just do as I suggested above several times.

Any repair guy that cant figure this out is seconds is seriously retarded.

Video!

[Burgerman]

EASY solution. Roll to any car accessory type place, any mechanic or back street garage, any bicycle shop, and just ask them to check it out. No toolsneeded. Raise it 1 inch off the ground by rolling onto a book with the other good caster. Let them wiggle and turn it.

10 seconds later they will tell you whatif anythig is wrong.
Its either this, or a REAR suspension problem.

[shirley_hkg]

biscuit maybe right. Shock absorption is in the stem, not at the forks for this chair.

youtu.be/qyu-89x5NFc

[Burgerman]

Front suspension is just a polyurethane sleve. Nothing to fail. If it did it should still rotate!
Rear suspension could fail on one side lifting a caster potentially.

ANY semi concious human that can bend or reach it can find out exactly where the issue is in seconds. Unless IQ the same as a hamster. Which is quite likely judging by the ones I meet at tech workshops, shows, WCS, etc.

[biscuit]

Well I know 0 about castors, bearings or suspension, I just read the service manual for the Aviva. But I know that releasing anything to a workshop is a risk, they keep your wheels for a day to do a 5 minute job, then when you pay them a shedload of ££ they give it back in the same or worse condition, and if it's a car agent you also get recommendations full of porky pies, they look at the owner and classify as knowledgeable or granny etc. and treat the item accordingly. And as for mobility workshops they don't even do that. That's my experience with cars and wheelchairs. Probable there are lots that are more honourable, but personally I don't favour the risk. Find out for yourself what needs doing and get able assistance to carry it out!

My cleaner is very helpful with my wheelchair. And my brothers sometimes, or the motorbike shop in town. They do what I ask them to. And when mess-ups happen, I am responsible for them.

[Burgerman]

I agree. I cant see anything on a powerchair thats any more complicated than a bycicle really. Oce you look at things closely then no workshop anual is even needed. Its all pretty basic stuff to DIY better than some "expert" will do it. If you are disabled you use YOUR brain and other peoples muscles. As I do.

I can do most stuff myself but some is beyond me due to disability. Reach, weight, etc. But my brain still works and thats all you need.

[Burgerman]

Theres one possibiity on some invacare chairs. You have the caster lock turned on.
Not all invacare chairs even have this.

I also dont understand the point of one...

Lets hope not!
You would feel it as a sudden clunk as it hits the lever and it would make itself obvious.

[Jay_x]

The tech that fixed it is new apparently, so they are sending the other guy out who knows his stuff. He will be out this afternoon.

[Burgerman]

You mean they sent a retard. Now they are going to send the oily rag. When he cocks it up they will take it away for them to try and figure out the patently obvious. Then when all else fails they will ask the engine driver.

Seen it all so many times. Its why I do everything myself. Vehicles, central heating, computers, chairs, rolling roads, race bike engines, bathrooms, electrics, solar, you name it. Not because I like it. But because I have ZERO confidence in anyone else ever getting anything right! Thats why I avoid doctors and especially hospitals like the plague.

I wish you luck.

[Jay_x]

Okay so the other tech came out, this is the guy that actually knows what he is doing.

He says this chair is the first of its kind by Invacare and the forks and casters have had a lot of issues. Not just my chair but many of the chairs of this model. So Invacare redesigned the whole thing and I will be getting not just new casters but the entire arm and assembly, under warranty. so hopefully that should fix it.

[Burgerman]

Its an arm. With bearings. So WHAT WAS THE ACTUAL PROBLEM?
Did he take it apart and did he examine it?

Or is this another ignoramus that is doing what all the ignoramuses do and throwing a load of parts on it because they are too stupid to figure it out?

I dont see how you can design a caster arm, 2 bearings, and a caster fork that doesent rotate! Its basic stuff. As simple as a door hinge.

These engineers leave me baffled. Even if they are going to replace half the chair he could have FIXED the problem so the chair works correctly for now. I would have done.

But then I know that time is important to you, and costly for the company (aready 2 trips!) so would have brought any parts I may possibly need with me regardless. So wouldnt have needed a quick temporary repair. But then I have a brain. Its why I have any spares that I could possibly require for my own chairs right here on the shelf. Zero downtime.

[foghornleghorn]

Its a problem that occurs quite often with single-sided castor forks.

The wheel which is dragging is not centred properly on its shaft.

Could be they have used wider bearings than specified. Or more likely there is a washer on the fork arm side of the wheel that should have been fitted on the nut side.

[Burgerman]

But all possible issues are obvious to anyone with 3 brain cells. Its not rocket science its a caster!

[Jay_x]

Its a problem that occurs quite often with single-sided castor forks.

The wheel which is dragging is not centred properly on its shaft.

.

Yes I think this is correct.

[Jay_x]

But all possible issues are obvious to anyone with 3 brain cells. Its not rocket science its a caster!

the way he explained it, the caster and the arm and the suspension are all part of a single unit. Its something new Invacare is trying and clearly they have not yet worked out the kinks.

[Burgerman]

Not according to the workshop manual. It shows how it come apart and explains in painting by numbers style how. 2 bearings, how to be sure they are the right side up, which is obvious, and how to tap the old ones out. Just like all chairs/bearings.

https://www.polybush.co.uk/
This stuff, not nesassarily this colour! Or brand. Can be clear, any colour. May be bonded to the arm, etc.

Its just like many others except that it uses a urethane "polybush" softer" mount for the bearing tube the bearings tap into. That bit of polyurethane tube allows the caster momunt and bearings to have some flex. Its not suspension as such, its just a slight flexibility between bearing tube and arm.

Not sure its a good idea either as it does nothing to absorb vertical movement which is whats required. Just pushes back a fraction of a degree as the caster sees an obstacle. Its marketing suspension... I used those same urethane polybush things to replace the stock rubber ones on my cars 3 decades ago. They work ok and are tough. But allows more tyre noise and vibration through. But improves handling as its less "wobbly" and more positive.

[Jay_x]

I mean the suspension on this thing sucks. Its a very rough ride. Its super comfortable to sit in, the most comfortable chair I have owned. But the suspension is awful.

[Burgerman]

Like most chairs.

How is it more comfortable?
You sit on a cushion, your own choice not made by invacare. I use a Roho at the moment.
And seat back is the same, in that theres many options and all much the same other than size that you choose. As for seat angles, and sizes, and footrest angles/arm angles and sizes etc they are all adjustable. So every chair SHOULD feel identical once configured properly. Unless they are not...

This is why its pretty pointless demoing chairs. They only feel diffrent because they are configured differently. The same with programming. So the only real diference is suspension. And most of that depends on tyre types/size, air pressures, and whatever excuse of a suspension they fit or you choose on the order form. Mostly with about 1/2 inch of suspension travel. So useless.

Only the invacare storm 4 xplore was ever any different that was detectable here. It rides way better. Partly suspension, partly because 12 inch casters.

[Jay_x]

the seat back is highly customizable. The very back opens up and they have small firm cushions you can place to create lumbar support, something most chairs lack. And since everybody will need lumbar support at a very slightly different level, being able to choose exactly where you want the lumbar support and how much lumbar support makes it super comfortable.

[Burgerman]

Is it different to other invacare backs?
What do you think to the jay backs?