Lithium Ion Batteries on Quantum Rehab Chair

[BCrip71]

I am thinking of returning my Amylior R3 with a R-Trak. Has anyone ever used lithium batteries on a Quantum Rehab chair? Would charging at 10 Amps with a lithium battery charger, through the joystick, damage anything (joystick/modules/motors)? I asked Quantum and they do not recommend it.

[BCrip71]

World these AGMs be easier?

https://voltloop.ca/products/odx-agm24f ... 4f-840-cca

[Burgerman]

Quantum are idiots.
A 10A charge is a 10A charge regardless of what type of battery is involved. And a 10 or 12A charger as I use all the time is fine on XLR connectors.

As for are those a good idea or a good battery yes. But they wont fit every chair. They will fit a few of mine. Probably the best LEAD based battery on the market. At double the price of the lithiums I just bought with 6x the usable capacity/range... And 5x the service life.

Those are 275mm long. GRP 24 is normally 260mm.

[BCrip71]

They advised to stick to a 8 Amp charger.

What about these batteries?

https://soneil.com/product/12-efsl-87/

[emilevirus]

I am thinking of returning my Amylior R3 with a R-Trak. Has anyone ever used lithium batteries on a Quantum Rehab chair? Would charging at 10 Amps with a lithium battery charger, through the joystick, damage anything (joystick/modules/motors)? I asked Quantum and they do not recommend it.

I charge my 100ah lithium @ 12A using XLR port, no issue.

[Burgerman]

Why?
Almost all the other manufacturers now either offer or supply 10A chargers or 12A such as Dietz etc..
They finally understood that the faster you get the fisrt part the bulk stage done then the better as it allows a longer CV or Absorption stage and gets you closer to a full carge in the overnight period we have. Without using too high voltage.

That means batteries last better...

Ignore them. 10 or 12A is fine.

Those batteries?
Are 8mOhm. Thats almost double that of the MK gel, (4.5) and 3x as much as the Odyssey at 2.5mOhms.
What does it mean? Well a heavy chair like mine, programmed to "go" will normally wheelie easily. With those, not a chance. But that just demonstrates the real ssue. They wont be great at high loads. So accurate control, tuning in place for e.g will mean the voltage drops a lot in comparison.

If climbing a hill for e.g then they will drop charge lights much faster than say the 3x better odyssey. This might not matter if its a slow chair, a light user, a chair programmed in what I call hovercraft mode, as you wont "feel" this as badly if at all.

They are the opposite to what you need for sport for e.g.

If you use it gently, dont have extreme programming they may be fine while new. Or new ish. But as battery ages its internal resistace goes up further... So they may run out of "torque" and range on say a hil, long before they lose much Ah.

Does this help?

[BCrip71]

I am thinking of returning my Amylior R3 with a R-Trak. Has anyone ever used lithium batteries on a Quantum Rehab chair? Would charging at 10 Amps with a lithium battery charger, through the joystick, damage anything (joystick/modules/motors)? I asked Quantum and they do not recommend it.

I charge my 100ah lithium @ 12A using XLR port, no issue.

You have a Quantum?

[Burgerman]

I charge my 100ah lithium @ 12A using XLR port, no issue.

I am doing that right now... And at 13A a couple of days ago. It isnt an issue if you use a BRANDED Neutrix connector and sensible cable size.

[BCrip71]

Why?
Almost all the other manufacturers now either offer or supply 10A chargers or 12A such as Dietz etc..
They finally understood that the faster you get the fisrt part the bulk stage done then the better as it allows a longer CV or Absorption stage and gets you closer to a full carge in the overnight period we have. Without using too high voltage.

That means batteries last better...

Ignore them. 10 or 12A is fine.

Those batteries?
Are 8mOhm. Thats almost double that of the MK gel, (4.5) and 3x as much as the Odyssey at 2.5mOhms.
What does it mean? Well a heavy chair like mine, programmed to "go" will normally wheelie easily. With those, not a chance. But that just demonstrates the real ssue. They wont be great at high loads. So accurate control, tuning in place for e.g will mean the voltage drops a lot in comparison.

If climbing a hill for e.g then they will drop charge lights much faster than say the 3x better odyssey. This might not matter if its a slow chair, a light user, a chair programmed in what I call hovercraft mode, as you wont "feel" this as badly if at all.

They are the opposite to what you need for sport for e.g.

If you use it gently, dont have extreme programming they may be fine while new. Or new ish. But as battery ages its internal resistace goes up further... So they may run out of "torque" and range on say a hil, long before they lose much Ah.

Does this help?

Are MK gels the best standard solution then?

[Burgerman]

Well all lead based batteries are trying to do 3 things.

Well four if you count the external dimensions that limit the internal volume.

So those 3 things are

-IMPEDANCE (a way to measure resistance with AC current) as this determines the current capability as a proxy for the peukert effect, or the surface charge effect that all lead batteries have. This limits performance. And to a degree range too as it means the voltage drops too low long before the battery is really empty.

-CAPACITY and this is the SIZE of the fuel tank. So in theory a 80Ah battery stores 80A for 1h. Or 1 amp for 80 hours. But its not that simple. A high impedance battery will only give you 40 of those Amp hours at the 2 hour rate. So you end up out of jiuce long before the battery is used up.

-CYCLE LIFE which tells you how many cycles you can have before it goes into the bin.

Improve any ONE or TWO of these and the 3rd one gets worse... Its all a balance.

So which battery you buy depends on your usage, expectations, how you will charge it, and it IS possible on a cheap battery to make all 3 of those things worse.

The battery you linked to, was higher capacity than the MK. But that came at the cost of either (or both) impedance and cycle life.

The ODYSSEY is super low internal resistance or impedance. And it costs. It has average capacity. But it has less cycle life than the MK.

There are a few other decent batteries such as the ones that the chair manufacturers all fit. Move GEL, Haze EV GEL, MK gel etc. These are all around 5mohm, 76 to 80Ah and 450 to 500 cycles at 80% DoD and all perform well.

ALL NEED charging PROPERLY!!!
In the UK though. So not sure in canada? What you would buy.