is 646se base a good base for upgrade? what other options

[yeshelp]

Hello Everybody,

I hope you are well, I am starting to look for a used chair as a back up chair that i could find pieces still in production for repairs since i have problems with the current one.

Where I live there is snow and salt a lot in winter so I have to take a 4 wheel power wheel chair not a mid drive 6 wheels.
I really dont do speed , i use it like a grandma but since rolling in snow is demanding I mention it cause rolling in snow slush needs power.
To give you an idea I use a quickie 646se and i am satisfied with the performance even though the motor can get hot rolling in snow .

I do not need tilt recline chair or other extra, juste the basic. I have gel mk batterie which seem to give enough power. I consider lithium in futur but lets not mix too much things in.And I have a low budjet so lets keep that in mind. A mecanician told my years ago that the more years advance the less the new pieces produced to build poweredwheelchair are durable is that true . So picking up a old solid wheelchair as base would aling with paying low price since old model. I have social security income and no insurance so.. poor. But I need to know which base allow for finding replacement parts easily not too expensive. The idea would be that i start with a already existing base, take good care of it and if pieces break, be able to find parts not overpriced for futur years.

A)It seems like the motors on 646 se are not produced anymore. I imagine that if there was a replacement motor-gearbox someone would have told me in the other post but i didn t ask and maybe there are are there good motors that can be fitted on?, With the oversized tires I have the total width is 27 inches and the door opening is only 32 inch so i could not go much wider.

B) about the electronics , i know that Burgerman seems very good at finding online deals and by reading another post, where he said

paid £45 ($55 dollars US) for the Power Module. Thats 120A capable, much better than you have now!
I paid £150 ($190 US) for the CJSM2 brand new joystick.
I paid £15 ($20) for that bus cable.

Those where probably big Deals so i would assume that with 350 usd i could find the needed electronics .
And you WILL NEED a R-Net programmer. Idont have the name the the programer needed would someone know the name and approximate the cost of a working used on please?

C) I understand the concept that is a wheelchair is discontinued since a long time they dont produce the motors anymore so you are stucked with having to buy used overpriced motor since they become rare. We can aggre that if all you chair works well and you cant use it because only one part is missing sucks. So apart from the electronics, are there other pieces that would become difficult to find for the 646 se in the case i can find replacable motor-gearbox that will still be produced on it ?because if i can use the frame of the 646 se and find other parts in production that fit that could be a good start. Building all the wheelchair from scratch could be too complicated and costly.?


It is important to me to know what there is to know about if choosing a 646se as a base or a storm arrow or other, ( using r net is a kind of futur proof way to go it seems at least ). It would give me info about if i should look for a used 646se or a used barely new 646se$$ OR simply forget the 646se as a base to build on and choose another model that have more easily replacable parts . I try to keep it simple .

Im open minded let me know any consideration I have to take into account that I might not be aware of,

thanks

[emilevirus]

Yes, on eBay there are plenty of R-Net deals. But isn't your chair covered by RAMQ? Programmer just search R-Net dongle on eBay. Just need to catch a good deal. Paid $150 for mine. There was a Bounder used for sale in Quebec the other day. You could check these as well.

[Burgerman]

B) about the electronics , i know that Burgerman seems very good at finding online deals and by reading another post, where he said

paid £45 ($55 dollars US) for the Power Module. Thats 120A capable, much better than you have now!
I paid £150 ($190 US) for the CJSM2 brand new joystick.
I paid £15 ($20) for that bus cable.

Those where probably big Deals so i would assume that with 350 usd i could find the needed electronics .
And you WILL NEED a R-Net programmer. Idont have the name the the programer needed would someone know the name and approximate the cost of a working used on please?

You need to learn to "fish" ebay, over time, to grab good deals like these.

Programmer will be the most expensive and hardest to get...

Also dont buy a chair thats discontinued unless you can use a drill, file, weld, etc and can think laterally and adapt and fit parts...
In your position I would buy a current modern chair.
But then I might move someplace a lot warmer and less salty first! Seriously.

[Burgerman]

Cheap.

120A power module. 6 channel seating actuator. Alo does lights. And 2 bus cables as new price below. I bought. £80 for all.

And joystick... Brand new in box. But I offered £70, so thats what I paid.

Thats everything you need to take any chair, trow away its electronics, and replace with 120A R-net! £150 all in.

[Burgerman]

Offered 40, accepted...
Got 2.

[Burgerman]

All bought the same way.

[Burgerman]

Have about 5 of everything! 5 full sets. To build 5 chairs from the ground up. + A few extra joysticks too, like 7. All brand new in boxes. Including cables.
The whole lot, including a new OEM level programmer cost me around 1k.

By CAREFULLY fishing ebay across several countries for misspellings, mis labeling etc. So instead of searching for joystick search wheelchair controller or ECU or brain, or incorrect branding etc. Or search for people selling stuff they dont understand and buy it instantly before I do!

And 3 full R-Net chairs too... Of which I wear out one at a time. Then rebuild it and while I use another. I am sorted for the next 30 years. And I will be dead long before that.

You must ORGANISE yourself. Its no use saying you cant afford to do this, because its more costly NOT to do it...

[shirley_hkg]

Quickie 6X6 chair is classic. Ultra robust tubular frame, and exceptional good design of shock absorption. I'd surely put new parts on it.

New 636 motors are still easy to find, and could be a direct fit.

May swap to Rnet system if existing one died.

[yeshelp]

Yes, on eBay there are plenty of R-Net deals. But isn't your chair covered by RAMQ? Programmer just search R-Net dongle on eBay. Just need to catch a good deal. Paid $150 for mine. There was a Bounder used for sale in Quebec the other day. You could check these as well.

Hi the Ramq does not cover for my condition, they are so strick hemi para plegy and a few more conditions.
I didn't know bounder company, they seem to have smaller wheels. Would you know which models compares to a 646 se to be able to have traction in snow?
where did you find it Fb? kijiji?
thanks

[emilevirus]

where did you find it Fb? kijiji?

Yeah, Kijiji but seems gone now :/ From what I understand Bounder is built much better. It's chain driven rather than direct drive so motors don't come in contact with snow/salt. There are often a few that popups on eBay as well. I saw one under $1000 the other day.

I didn't know bounder company, they seem to have smaller wheels. Would you know which models compares to a 646 se to be able to have traction in snow?

You'd want the offroad package. https://wheelchairs.com/options?p=DRIVE ... 4X5-4B-T-T

[yeshelp]

Also dont buy a chair thats discontinued unless you can use a drill, file, weld, etc and can think laterally and adapt and fit parts...
In your position I would buy a current modern chair.
But then I might move someplace a lot warmer and less salty first! Seriously.

Hi moving is not a possibility im stucked with canadian winters climate since my income is last ressort security social net from canada qc.

Buying a current modern chair usually means very expensive.
but I am willing to take a look to see what options represent.

I really dont know much about the models, all I remember is that storm arrow and 646 se where good choices 15 years ago.
Are all those following models sufficient to go through winter snow slush? I really dont know how to evaluate that .

fROM PRIDE
-i only see Extreme X8 25 000cnd (probably overkill for those who want to go hunting)
- the Quickie Q500 M or Q700 M are not an option since mid drive in snow has too little traction.
-? Did they stop producing good rear wheelchairs?

From INVACARE
-Invacare Storm Series 4X-Plore:10 000 to 15 000 new
-Invacare Storm Series Torque 3 Power Wheelchair 8 500 new
-invacare stom tdx and rx are said to do poorly in snow

Bounder
Which models would do well in winter ?
Bounder Plus Off-Road Power Chair for $8,399.00

would there be other good candidates?

thanks

[ex-Gooserider]

Bounders have a pretty good reputation for solid and reliable construction, but have the downside of being bigger than a lot of chairs. I'm not sure what they have for control systems currently but they used to have a custom proprietary system that was not readily programmable. Some were chain drive, some used belts, which has advantages and disadvantages, including the need to maintain them. No idea about parts availability except that they are one of the more unusual chairs so you probably would have to go to the manufacturer and buy new for most things.

The 6X6 series chairs were not bad in their day, and are still pretty solid, but have long been discontinued so parts availability other than used is going to be very limited.

ex-Gooserider

[emilevirus]

I paid my magic extreme x8 about $4000 only one year old. Don't buy new, buy used! You can find basically brand new chairs for cheap.
There's also Magic 360

[emilevirus]

Bounders have a pretty good reputation for solid and reliable construction, but have the downside of being bigger than a lot of chairs. I'm not sure what they have for control systems currently but they used to have a custom proprietary system that was not readily programmable. Some were chain drive, some used belts, which has advantages and disadvantages, including the need to maintain them. No idea about parts availability except that they are one of the more unusual chairs so you probably would have to go to the manufacturer and buy new for most things.

The 6X6 series chairs were not bad in their day, and are still pretty solid, but have long been discontinued so parts availability other than used is going to be very limited.

ex-Gooserider

They use R-Net or linx now.

[Yennek]

Bounders have a pretty good reputation for solid and reliable construction, but have the downside of being bigger than a lot of chairs. I'm not sure what they have for control systems currently but they used to have a custom proprietary system that was not readily programmable. Some were chain drive, some used belts, which has advantages and disadvantages, including the need to maintain them. No idea about parts availability except that they are one of the more unusual chairs so you probably would have to go to the manufacturer and buy new for most things.

I have a Bounder currently torn apart in my garage. Nearly everything in/on them could be bought from a McMaster-Carr catalog. Bearings are all standard sizes, rear axle is a grade 8 6" long 5/8th bolt. Springs on the front casters are compression die springs that follow the Raymond color code for stiffness. Rear shocks are 200mm MTB shocks. Front sprockets are a standard #35 chain sprocket for a keyed 5/8th shaft. Rear sprocket can be easily made from W-series weld sprocket (drill a 3 hole pattern and bore a larger hole). I haven't been able to find catalog equivalents for are the motors, brakes, and the little splined connector between the brakes and the motor. There's probably some other things that are custom to them, but most of the things look like they could be fabricated easily in a small machine shop if they aren't off the shelf somewhere.

That said, on the bounder website they do have a rather extensive list of all the parts that are available for them (although relatively spendy). They even advertise a flat rate motor rebuilding.

[Burgerman]

But.

Take a look at his original chair that he uses and its level of maintainance and his ability to understand what he is looking at.
Then imagine what that chain drive will look like in a salt infested wet canadian winter without any maintainance...

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... =2&t=12922

And I suspect that your previous list which is actually true of many chairs albeit metric sizes on many, is also true. I usually recognise most parts and can find them online or alternatives with maybe a little adaptation. But you need the skills to do that which yeshelp doesent appear to have. I imagine that it was like reading greek to him!

[yeshelp]

I paid my magic extreme x8 about $4000 only one year old. Don't buy new, buy used! You can find basically brand new chairs for cheap.
There's also Magic 360

Hi emile,
magic 36o is a mid drive . From experience on quantum 6000z mid drive, it always get stucked in little snow.

But the Bounder I didn't know before and I wonder if the bounder 300 would be powerfull enough in snow. If anyone has tried it let me know I might start looking for a bargain on it

[emilevirus]

Sorry I meant this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/225109045982
But that's waaay overpriced. You can snag one under $2000 if you check everyday.

[Burgerman]

I thought carneys canada was now a communist socialist country now? Isnt there some state funded system for chairs?

When looking for chars on ebay make sure they are like new. Clean. Show zero use by looking carefully. They are generally offered at silly prices. They can be purchased much cheaper.

I bought my Q700 with 6 miles on it. A 14k chair with every expensive box ticked on the order form and paid 4.6k with warranty and brand new batteries.

Heres a clean looking chair. 72 miles only. Thats quite common. (the last chair I bought had 6) and I would offer £3.5k maybe 4. Take it or leave it. If they accept great. If they want more, just leave your phone number and walk away. And see what they say later on... Its UK so no use to you. But meant as a way to explain how its done.
Dont ever pay sticker price! Buy LOW MILES and super clean like new only. Dont rush. Fishing on eBay can take a long time if you want to win.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/336199663681

More cheap chairs
Same dealer
https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/platinummobi ... 61.l170197

[emilevirus]

I thought carneys canada was now a communist socialist country now? Isnt there some state funded system for chairs?

Depends. If you were born like that, it's funded like mine. But if it was a car accident, then your insurance pays.
https://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/fr/professi ... s-roulants

[yeshelp]

I thought carneys canada was now a communist socialist country now? Isnt there some state funded system for chairs?

Depends. If you were born like that, it's funded like mine. But if it was a car accident, then your insurance pays.
https://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/fr/professi ... s-roulants

And if you happen to be in a category outside those, you are byyouself which is my case unfortunatly.

[yeshelp]

HI I looked at BurgerMan 's ebay exemple store link to get ideas of models.

To be able to go around in snow , apart from a decent ground clearance, what are the minimal motors specs to search for? Does it all comes down to watts? I dont look for speed but some power for snow without overheating.

The tires can be modified so I dont put it in my search .
Are there other important caracters to look for apart from the motor specs?

Thanks

[Burgerman]

If in snow everything matters. Watts, Amps, motor impedance, max current capability of controler, gearing, CG, type of chair, etc.

[emilevirus]

It also depends on your weight. Everyone was saying the PM on Magic Extreme X8 was overheating a lot but I've never had any issue. I managed to take 120Ah out of my batteries in 2h last winter. Never got a warning.