transfer

[martin007]

In this case, a certain amount of time will pass to request the same help.

That time can be years.

Sometimes it is slow but once they prescribe it you go to an orthopedic and you can buy it with your own money and then they pay you for it over the course of the year. Once people don't need it, they should return it to social security even if they don't claim it, which I believe no one does.

The waiting list for a specialist doctor can be many months.
That waiting list is longer after COVID.

Something similar happens to cancer patients.
The waiting list turns them into patients with metastases.

Once people don't need it, they should return it to social security even if they don't claim it, which I believe no one does.

Social Security doesn't want used products.
Managing those products costs money.
The collar may be more expensive than the greyhound.
There are careless people who shorten the useful life of things.

[shirley_hkg]

Once crowned a medical equipment, it will be ceiling priced. But you can diy, can't you ?

I clone a multi-lift to get myself in and out of bath tub, and a ceiling hoist in bedroom with remote control.

£500 I guess.


youtu.be/5gmC_4wf5h0


youtu.be/CEVy_JgUlJ0

[Raro]

That time can be years.

Logically, if this were not the case, it would be ruin. There are very expensive products that cannot be provided every day, such as an electric chair.

The waiting list for a specialist doctor can be many months.
That waiting list is longer after COVID.

Something similar happens to cancer patients.
The waiting list turns them into patients with metastases..

The waiting lists can vary a lot. For me, arranging a consultation with the specialist can take a few days. The last one prescribed me the product without going through the consultation. I also have two close relatives with cancer in less than a month, both of them were already undergoing treatment. all cases are not the same.

Social Security doesn't want used products.
Managing those products costs money.
The collar may be more expensive than the greyhound.
There are careless people who shorten the useful life of things.

Generally this service is referred to an orthopedics that manages it poorly because for them it is better to sell new.

[Raro]

Once crowned a medical equipment, it will be ceiling priced. But you can diy, can't you ?

I clone a multi-lift to get myself in and out of bath tub, and a ceiling hoist in bedroom with remote control.

£500 I guess.


youtu.be/5gmC_4wf5h0


youtu.be/CEVy_JgUlJ0

If the moment the product is medical it becomes absurdly expensive but having your idea is not within everyone's reach either, you are a genius!

[LROBBINS]

Health service waiting times in Italy vary very widely between different regions and even different local agencies within a region. There are "standards", often not met, BUT there is also recourse, the procedures for which are not widely known. Last year I was essentially out of commission because of back pain and our family doc requested a neurosurgeon consult. The law says that you have to get an appointment within 60 days - but the only appointment offered me was for 15 months away. Luckily, AltroConsumo, our equivalent of the U.S. Consumer Reports, or British Which, and there are similar in Spain, France, Belgium etc., had just had an article explaining what the law says and detailing how to force the health service to respect the limits, or pay for you to go to a private service. This involved sending e-mails to a variety of offices, reading their lame excuses, and "bitching" in a second email. After this, the "Defensor Civico" (a sort of ombudsman) pushed all of the other agencies involved and within a couple days I had an appointment for less than 30 days away. The excellent surgeon did a clinical exam, that let him focus in on the MRI images at exactly the right spot (I already had the scan), and advised a mini-invasive decompression. IT WORKED. I'm unsteady on my pins, but for the first time in years I'm essentially pain free.

Most Italians in similar situations respond like sheep, I don't - I respond rather the way Burgerman deals with getting the right wheelchair for his needs. The "powers that be" don't like my raised voice, but it does work.

[Burgerman]

IT WORKED. I'm unsteady on my pins, but for the first time in years I'm essentially pain free.

It works...
Do not suffer fools. I dont actually raise my voice much. I just leave them zero time, and press them hard and keep asking the blindingly obvious questions and use logic and facts and their own rules against them. I put them on the spot and embarass them repeatedly. Dont swear, dont insult, just repeatedly point out exactly where and why they failed over and over. A week later I ask them exactly what they have done to sort out the problem in that week. And ask them why it takes more than 3 minutes to do it or why they did nothing. Whatever it was.

You end up with this kind of detail and they hate you! But they actually will and can do it if you force them.

Good Morning John,

Apologies for the delay in responding to your email. Yes, I can confirm that the order has been placed this morning for the wheelchair, and the Roho cushion order was placed yesterday (after receiving the quote back from supplier). There has been a slight delay in getting the order placed from receiving confirmation of your email to go ahead with the wheelchair. Dietz is not a registered/known supplier to the NHS so I have had to contact Dietz directly to request for a new supplier form to be completed so that we can get them set up with our Procurement Team to then place an order with them. I initially contacted Dietz on the 26th June 2024 requesting for this form to be completed and emailed back to myself. I didn’t receive any response from the supplier, so I subsequently chased this up again on the 27th June 2024 and then another email on the 1st July 2024. I finally received a response from the customer service team at Dietz on the 2nd July 2024 at 09:26am. This form was then emailed to our Procurement team at 09:28am requesting for the supplier to be setup on the ordering system. I then had to chase this up again with our Procurement team later that afternoon, again on the 3rd July and then this was raised with the team leader within the service. I have received confirmation from our Procurement team early this morning to confirm that the supplier is now setup, which I then immediately placed the order.

Any correspondence that we receive from the supplier we will email you and keep you updated.


Kind regards,

Lauren
Senior Administrator

The reason they responded this way, is because they couldnt face me turning up and telling them all loudly and publically how incompetant, lazy and useless they were. Again. I embarassed the lot of them in a meeting the last time! Logic, reason, and simple QUESTIONS like why did x take 6 weeks.... When I can do it in 3 minutes. When they wont give an answer ask them who you can speak to that CAN. Dont let it go. When they blame their internal "systems" tell them that those are THEIR systems, not your problem. And if they dont work scrap them.

I know what the actual reason is. Sheer lazyness. This happens across every socialist system. They create ever more complex ways to achieve less with more people, paper, eetings etc over time. YOU re not the one paying. They have no boss that needs to make a profit. They care about themselves having an easy time and zero responsibility. They blame the "system". Main priority is having an easy life doing meetings about meetings and making up forms and internal systems, not you. Not your chair.

[LROBBINS]

Here's simple comparison of Italy's health service and the U.S. utter mess. I just started a new (not yet in generic) medicine for IBS. It is not covered by the health service (IBS isn't viewed as a debilitating condition) so I have to pay out of pocket - E40 for 10 (once a day) pills. In the U.S. it's >$800 for a 20 pill package and may or may not be covered by insurance. Even if covered, you'll have a copay at least as high as the full cost here, but the insurance co will actually get a discount and pay the drug company something quite close to your copay. So you get to pay for the insurance and still pay what would be the full price for the drug here. Basically the same for wheelchairs - telephone number list prices and you have a copay which nearly covers what the insurance co. actually pays. Corruption and incompetence are rampant in both systems.

Biden started a program to have a small subset of drugs commonly prescribed for the elderly subject to price bidding for Medicare (elderly and disabled) coverage. Ten were on the first list which is supposed to go into effect next year. Twenty, including the one I described above, are supposed to go out for bid this year with the winners selected in 2027. Trump is expected to kill all of this.

[martin007]

Corruption and incompetence are rampant in both systems.

Corruption is a constant in the history of mankind.
Corruption is innate to human beings.

[Burgerman]

The whole medical system in tthe US and the UK and probably elsewhere are all a mess and all are corrupt and inneficient. It amazes me that the US in particular with the free market and capitalistic nature has a massively regulated and centrally controlled corrupt medical system. We have even worse with a completely socialist non functional money pit called the NHS who make up ever more inventive ways to do less, employ more layers and paper pushers, waste more and make their own lives easier year on year.

[slomobile]

I've found a 'solution' for transfer from bed to chair. Its a better style of chair for my needs.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/572168327666626305/
https://www.trendhunter.com/trends/slide-wheelchair
and a different solution from chair to toilet.
https://universaltoilet.blogspot.com/

I really like both of those ideas and would like to implement them in my home.
Unfortunately neither seems to be available. How can I buy these items?

[Raro]

I have no idea, maybe it has not been marketed. At the end of the article it says that if you have any questions you can ask by email at kim.changduk@gmail.com

[c500user]

Not sure if anyone is aware of this product. It is made by a Belgian company, Handimove, and exported worldwide. They also make mobile and ceiling hoists, but have a look at the Handi-move body support system (I think it used to be called sure hands, but someone probably trademarked the name and they had to change it).
https://www.handimove.com/products/hand ... dy-support

I use one on a Molift ceiling hoist. Much easier and more comfortable than slings.
I would recommend to try one out in a showroom somewhere.

[Raro]

Not sure if anyone is aware of this product. It is made by a Belgian company, Handimove, and exported worldwide. They also make mobile and ceiling hoists, but have a look at the Handi-move body support system (I think it used to be called sure hands, but someone probably trademarked the name and they had to change it).
https://www.handimove.com/products/hand ... dy-support

I use one on a Molift ceiling hoist. Much easier and more comfortable than slings.
I would recommend to try one out in a showroom somewhere.

I've just seen this when looking for solutions. I think it's a great idea. I think it has to be much more practical than a harness. I don't have any muscle tone and I don't know if it will be suitable for me. The best thing would be to try it, but I doubt they'll let me do that. I see it as more suitable for a ceiling hoist than for a normal one. Have you ever tried to raise yourself without the leg supports to get up? Or is that not possible?

[c500user]

I have muscular dystrophy, so some muscle tone but not much. From what I understand it was originally designed for paraplegics to make transfers possible without a carer.
I always use it with a carer and my ceiling hoist only goes up and down. You would need a ceiling hoist with remote control that also goes left/right at the press of a button if you would use it on your own.

You always need to leg supports. The way the thing works is that the sides only keep your torso upright, while your weight is carried by the leg supports. Your weight is what squeezes the sides to your body.

I know handimove also have a mobile hoist that works with this thing. I know because someone I know sent me a photo of himself on a lazy chair with the hoist and body support system in the background. He takes it with him on holidays in his Mercedes Sprinter. I think it is this one: https://www.handimove.com/assets/pdf/productsheet/PSH_1640_en.pdf

I did not know if it would work for me (my OT thought it would not) but called a dealer and went there to try it. I only wanted to see if it could lift me up from my wheelchair, which it did. I then went back to my OT, arranged an official "trial" (where she was present) and that convinced her. She then wrote the funding application report.

I make a point of it that all my carers have used it, at least once, to know what it feels like and have an idea what it is like for me when they hoist me.

Note that there are different types of leg supports.
https://www.handimove.com/assets/pdf/productsheet/PSH_1074-1079_en.pdf
You will probably want the same ones I have, part# 1079S or -M, depending on the size you need. I also have special velcro straps that hold your leg to the support (not listed in the brochure).
They also have a non-slip version of this leg support, but the dealer did not have it, so I could not try it.

I can also recommend the cushions that are optional. The attach to the grey things at your side and make it a bit more comfortable, if, like me, you don't have much muscle left on the rib cage. They are shown as an option in the brochure.
https://www.handimove.com/assets/pdf/productsheet/PSH_1030-1035_en.pdf

[Raro]

I also have muscular dystrophy, and what I want most is to be able to take off my clothes when I go to the bathroom, and it is certainly difficult with the harness on. I would have tried a standing frame, but they advise against it because they say that it requires muscle tone in the legs and hips.

[Raro]

I have written to the orthopaedic clinic I usually go to to see if they know about it and if they can do a test, although I doubt it...

thanks for contributing

[LROBBINS]

Rachi uses a harness with head support designed for bathroom use so open on the bottom. I don't think she could be stripped naked while in it, but one can certainly pull down her clothes, underwear and diaper. Here's a pic:

and there's a description (in Italiano) at https://ortopediapalmeri.it/imbracatura-da-toilette-in-rete-con-poggiatesta-moretti-spa-im141/?srsltid=AfmBOoqKr9JepyVKwuyhbYg-y0LiPP1Fh3gcbyMnsnc9dap-1vkSJTkp

[Raro]

A harness similar to this is the one I suppose I will end up buying in the short term, although for me the head support is not necessary, but I do need something rigid around the back to keep me as upright as possible. Anyway, I will continue looking for all possible ways, and I will be grateful if anyone can provide more ideas.

Thanks Lenny

[Burgerman]

I have tried about 5 different patient slings. All similar to lennys pic.
All of them seem to leave me too laid back, too laid down. I always end up having the leg end at max length, head end at the shortest length and its still not quite enough so a bit of a fight getting correctly seated in a chair. So I lower the backrest about 10 degrees or so. Till I am in place!

No need for head/neck part for me.

[Raro]

I have tried about 5 different patient slings. All similar to lennys pic.
All of them seem to leave me too laid back, too laid down. I always end up having the leg end at max length, head end at the shortest length and its still not quite enough so a bit of a fight getting correctly seated in a chair. So I lower the backrest about 10 degrees or so. Till I am in place!

No need for head/neck part for me.

Yes, it is one of the drawbacks that you are lying down too much and, as I said, if my back is curved, since it makes it more difficult for me to breathe. I have seen some that have reinforcements in the back as if they were a footballer's shin guards that make it more rigid.
The solution from c500user is the one I have liked the most so far.

[c500user]

I also have muscular dystrophy, and what I want most is to be able to take off my clothes when I go to the bathroom, and it is certainly difficult with the harness on. I would have tried a standing frame, but they advise against it because they say that it requires muscle tone in the legs and hips.

If you have the upper body/arm strength, you may be able to lower your pants enough to go to the loo. I don't and transfer to my bed and get undressed there.
Another option would be to have a carer lower your pants while you are hoisted using the handiove thing. I have never tried it but assume it could work.

I have never tried a standing frame.

[Raro]

Another option would be to have a carer lower your pants while you are hoisted using the handiove thing. I have never tried it but assume it could work.

I have never tried a standing frame.

That's what I was getting at when I told you about using the Handi Move only with the armpit support. In reality, it only has to suspend you a few centimeters from the chair or the toilet, not for the transfer, but of course I have no idea if the device allows you to do this. I would encourage you to try it sitting in the chair, it would be quicker than having to go to bed first.

[c500user]

It does not lift you by the armpits. It lifts you using the leg supports.
The frame consists of 2 parts that are connected at a pivot point at the top. It works like scissors, squeezing you in so you don't fall out when it goes up, but only when the leg supports take the weight. It won't work without the leg supports because without them there is no weight pulling the two "arms"of the frame towards the centre, i.e. it won't squeeze.

[Raro]

Ok, you already told me, it's a shame, really.

[shirley_hkg]

youtu.be/-LbHR7DWdSo




youtu.be/qNceR0WCvCU

[LROBBINS]

Here's a link to the lift shown in those videos: https://accessunlimited.com/html/multi-lift-home.html

[Andrey]

Does anyone have tried this one? As I know they offer it in UK too.
https://www.htsystems.co.nz/kera-sit2sit


youtu.be/FAZfWqBFttw