PINNED - PROGRAMMING - Make it steer! R-Net + others

[Burgerman]

Anybody, anybody, ((c)ferris buelers day off)

[Burgerman]

The reply...

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

These settings affect the overall drive performance of the controller, and should not be changed from their default values:



In fact, they are only available to fully trained personnel, such as Sunrise Medical or Permobil OEMs, and should never be altered by end-users such as yourself.

Please ensure the settings are reverted back to their default settings per above. We cannot be held responsible for any issues arising from these being changed from these default settings.

Kind regards

Roger M. Brickliffe , B.Eng (Hons) MIET
Applications Engineering Manager – Industrial & Mobility Products

Industrial Group
Curtiss-Wright

So the retards that dont seem able to tell the time - never mind program a chair are the experts and we are "not allowed" to know! Even though I have forgotten more than all the experts I ever met.

[steves1977uk]

That response from the Curtiss-Wright engineer seems like a typical attitude towards disabled people. They probably think we are too dumb to understand how to program a chair. Which the opposite is completely true, you BM, me or anyone with an OEM programming dongle can program and understand our chairs better than any WCS tech can!

Steve

[Irving]

The reply...

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

These settings affect the overall drive performance of the controller, and should not be changed from their default values:



In fact, they are only available to fully trained personnel, such as Sunrise Medical or Permobil OEMs, and should never be altered by end-users such as yourself.

Please ensure the settings are reverted back to their default settings per above. We cannot be held responsible for any issues arising from these being changed from these default settings.

Kind regards

Roger M. Brickliffe , B.Eng (Hons) MIET
Applications Engineering Manager – Industrial & Mobility Products

Industrial Group
Curtiss-Wright

So the retards that dont seem able to tell the time - never mind program a chair are the experts and we are "not allowed" to know! Even though I have forgotten more than all the experts I ever met.

Dear Mr Brickliffe

Thank you for your reply, which, sad to say, my colleagues and I find incredibly patronising. Many of us are trained electronics and mechanical engineers with many decades of experience. Yes, we are users of wheelchairs, by circumstance rather than desire, but as engineers we aspire to make our chairs work for us rather than against us. Many of us have modified our chairs to overcome the shortcomings of their poor design and outdated technologies or have designed and built chairs of our own from scratch. As a community we have, despite its limitations, adopted R-Net as the controller of choice because of its relative availability, flexibility and ability to be programmed to meet our exacting needs. We are not uninformed users but engineers of our own destiny and need to know and understand every nuance of the systems and equipment we rely on daily for our independence. As such we look for an open dialogue rather than frankly insulting, patronising and arguably discriminatory responses.

Kind regards,
Irving..., BSc (Hons) Electrical Engineering, MSc Computer Science, AIEE,
Consulting Engineer ASPIRE Centre for Rehabilitation Engineering and Assistive Technologies

[greybeard]

He's got some nerve, I'll give him that! Who the hell owns the damned chair you or him? If it's you, then who the hell is he to tell you what you MUST do with it.

I've had the same reaction from stairlift "engineers", usually the heavily tattooed variety with lank greasy hair. When I first bought it my uncontrollable feet kept activating the emergency stop paddles on the footrest, so I removed them. To me that was an obvious thing to do as I am the only person who used the damned thing. At every service I was told they HAD to be replaced. Elfin safety, innit. I chucked a couple of these people out over the years for not putting the customer first.
One even had the temerity to tell me I was not allowed to replace the batteries when they died! He went super quick.

[greybeard]

The reply...

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

These settings affect the overall drive performance of the controller, and should not be changed from their default values:



In fact, they are only available to fully trained personnel, such as Sunrise Medical or Permobil OEMs, and should never be altered by end-users such as yourself.

Please ensure the settings are reverted back to their default settings per above. We cannot be held responsible for any issues arising from these being changed from these default settings.

Kind regards

Roger M. Brickliffe , B.Eng (Hons) MIET
Applications Engineering Manager – Industrial & Mobility Products

Industrial Group
Curtiss-Wright

So the retards that dont seem able to tell the time - never mind program a chair are the experts and we are "not allowed" to know! Even though I have forgotten more than all the experts I ever met.

Dear Mr Brickliffe

Thank you for your reply, which, sad to say, I and my colleagues find incredibly patronising. Many of us are trained electronics and mechanical engineers with many decades of experience. Yes, we are users of wheelchairs, by circumstance rather than desire, but as engineers we aspire to make our chairs work for us rather than against us. Many of us have modified our chairs to overcome the shortcomings of their poor design and outdated technologies or have designed and built chairs of our own from scratch. As a community we have, despite its limitations, adopted R-Net as the controller of choice because of its relative availability, flexibility and ability to be programmed to meet our exacting needs. We are not uninformed users but engineers of our own destiny and need to know and understand every nuance of the systems and equipment we rely on daily for our independence. As such we look for an open dialogue rather than frankly insulting, patronising and arguably discriminatory responses.

Kind regards,
Irving..., BSc (Hons) Electrical Engineering, MSc Computer Science, AIEE, Consulting Engineer.

Well said, Irving. I hope you or BM actually send that response to him. He deserves it.

[Irving]

I'd be happy to if BM sends me his email address.

[greybeard]

Great. Would love to see his reply.

[Irving]

Incidentally BM those parameters look like controller proportionality constants for feedback loop gain, controlling rise time & overshoot.

[rover220]

I'd be happy to if BM sends me his email address.

rbrickliffe@curtisswright.com if memory serves me right

[Irving]

I'd be happy to if BM sends me his email address.

rbrickliffe@curtisswright.com if memory serves me right

You know the guy?

Would be helpful to see BM's original email too.

[rover220]

I'd be happy to if BM sends me his email address.

rbrickliffe@curtisswright.com if memory serves me right

You know the guy?

Would be helpful to see BM's original email too.

only ever spoken to him for tech support

[steves1977uk]

Great. Would love to see his reply.

Me too!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Try asking him. I just replied with a few home truths. So he may ignore me. I have dealt with him since 97. Its was a fight then to get OEM level programmers too! But he relented after some discussions.

[Irving]

Try asking him. I just replied with a few home truths. So he may ignore me. I have dealt with him since 97. Its was a fight then to get OEM level programmers too! But he relented after some discussions.

So you have (negative?) history with that guy... ?

So why such a negative response now?

[Burgerman]

I spoke to him by phone about 22 years ago, and 2 emails. No negative. Just difficult to get hi to sel me OEM 2 decades ago!

[Irving]

22y in the same job?

[Burgerman]

At least. Same secretary too. Sonia! I think.

[steves1977uk]

Sonia is very helpful when I've e-mailed her for spare PM plugs for the motors and battery. Some people seem to have hassle ordering parts through her, but I've never had any issues.

Steve

[Snowy]

Using Burgerman's initial RNet settings I now have a chair that is responsive, and goes where I want when I want.
THANKS

[Burgerman]

You might want to fine tune those settings for a better balanced setup.

Dont use the file. But use the speed settings in the 2nd profile. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/program ... ions.R-net

[Snowy]

Thanks for the file.
The only setting I changed from yours is the forward deceleration max as I like to stop a bit faster than your setting.

[wheelie junkie]

Weird, I contacted CW when I received my dongle trying to understand the gyro module and had a lot of help from one of the engineering team explaining parameters and suggestions on what to try. I think that he knew I was "just" a user not trade. Very helpful anyway sending me the gyro module setup manual.

[Burgerman]

It all depends who you talk to. They are happy to sell me power modules, IOM units etc, and oem software, twice, and at the same time treat you like an idiot when you ask certain questions.

[TheFrankZebra]

So, there’s a dealer and an OEM level dongle, but are there also two versions of the handheld programmer? One the DTT and the other an OEM one? And I think I missed my chance to buy it, but someone was selling Quickie R-Net Programming Software, but it not only came with a disc and some cables, but some kind of Quickie USB to Can box. Does anyone know what it is/was? Is it possible (or certain?) that it was OEM? I will post a pic if I can.

[Burgerman]

It may be. Theres at least 20x more dealer ones to OEM around.
If the dongle has an A on it in small box, its dealer. If its got a B on it its OEM

[Burgerman]

Like this.

This one has an A in that square. That means its a DEALER (useless) version. Although if you dont mind a fight there are ways around this.
If it was a B then it is OEM.

[terry2]

A Chinese friend has told a few people how much we pay for the R-Net programmer.
So I am hoping they make a version of it......CHEAP

[Burgerman]

The hardware is already cheap. Likely a couple of dollars to manufacture. But its encoded so that each is different. The real money is in the included licence for the use of the software. Copying it may be quite easy. Or not. I dont know much about electronics. The software will still be illegal to use without a legitimate licence fee being paid to Curtiss Wright. If that bothers you.

It actually does bother me. Because I want them to develop the thing properly. And its a lot of work. So IF they would sell it to us I would buy it. I did in fact. But they wont actually sell the only version thats worth having to any end users. The DEALER version, you can buy easily. The OEM version, not so much... They are terrified of us, the end users getting that. So we have no choice but to lie or buy from dodgy sources, etc. If we end up having a home made or cheaply made chinese dongle, then its their own stupid fault. The reality is that if we want decent mobility, and a chair thats properly programmed then we dont have a choice. There are home brewed solutions to everything and every manufacturers mobility systems, mostly, already available on this forum. But most of those are now for older outdated systems. So now we need an r-net dongle, that allows OEM access. Or the software hacked so that any old interface with a arduino or whatever allows this. Just as has happened with all the previous systems.

I actually build my own chairs, so they will sell me OEM programmers. But even still I bought mine from overseas because its just easier than the inquisition.

Sooner or later there will be a workaround or hack or simple board that allows us to get easy cheap OEM access. The software is easily available now. And when it happens Curtiss Wright will sulk, and try to make things more difficult again. But they are stupidly shortsighted. We NEED OEM access. And if they wont sell it that we WILL find ways. If we cant at some point, then nobody will be recommending R-Net chairs any longer. They will get tarred with the same "avoid like the plague" recomendations that prides (curtis built) latest offerings get. Run away and never buy. Also the newest Dynamic systems. Run away!!!

Right now, with r-net there is a way. So thats the one to buy. Even though its expensive...

[greybeard]

Does anyone know what the motivation is for CW denying end users the ability to buy OEM? It seems totally illogical, but CW must have a reason for adopting this policy.