PINNED - PROGRAMMING - Make it steer! R-Net + others

[StigFan]

Questions: What's the purpose of RNET Gyro Module? Which are the Pro's and Con's? If i buy a gyro module where do i have to put it? Is there an optimal position? Then whenever i plug it do i have to program the controller to use it?

[Burgerman]

Its a tool.
In a front drive chair (those are not directionally stable and want to spin and go backwards), its essential. It will try to swap ends and gets worse the faster you travel. It prevents that by sensing the chair is turning, without a command input, and takes over the power to the wheels to prevent it. Trouble is that theres only so much available and the gyro gets priority. So it takes over your input meaning that at times the joystick response is either exadurated or ignored. Especially at speed.

In a mid drive chair, which is neutrally stable. (Meaning that it doesent try to swap ends and go backwards like a front drive chair but CAN be directionally quite sensitive. But doesent self correct like rear drive) it MAY be helpful in some circumstances. In a typical badly programmed stock powerchair the gyro is sometimes added to try and stop the user from going off course and help making it go straight. The best solution here is to throw it away and program the chair properly. UNLESS you have either terrible driving skills, or terrible hand contro or are using head control or non proportional control..

In a rear drive chair, they just do the same as a mid drive above. Except that rear drive chairs are already positively stable as a platform. In other words if something tries to disturb its direction, it corrects itself. Any sort of gyro definitely isnt a good idea here as it makes control less natural and removes feel. Unless again you are using say a non proportional control system and/or head controls etc. But they generally make a chair drive and feel worse. They do not make up for badly programmed stocks powerchairs. Although this is how they are generally used...

Yes they must be fixed in the correct position and plane. Since its an electronic gyro. It senses movement in ONE of the three X, Y or Z, dimensions.
Yes they must be programmed correctly and this also means the correct plane and direction. As well as actual response settings.

Why do you want one? Try to explain in detail and I will tell you if it will help of hinder!

[JenR]

Hi All,
Nice to see some community discussion and insights into R-NET!

I recently got a new FWD wheelchair (Karma Evo Lectus LR). Before this, I used a Permobil C500 LR (LowRider), which I really liked, but unfortunately, they don’t make them anymore. The Karma seems to be the closest match to the C500 LR.

I’m trying to modify some settings and have an OEM dongle (marked with “B”), but the OEM software I have is quite old (v5.7.0). I attempted to change settings like disabling the Start-Up Beep, but it didn’t seem to work. I later downloaded a newer version of the software I found online, but it turned out to be dealer-level software. Now my old OEM software is throwing an error, saying the data file I’m trying to open is more recent than the version of the software used to read the controller.

Does anyone have access to a more recent OEM software version that they can share?

A couple of other questions:

- My wheelchair is equipped with a 3.5mm jack-style actuator switch box, but I can only control one actuator at a time. I’m assuming this is normal for the jack interface? My C500 also had an actuator switch box, but I could control multiple actuators simultaneously. I came across the Ctrl+5 switch box online, which seems to connect directly to the R-net bus. Can I connect the Ctrl+5 box to the R-net bus and control multiple actuators this way?
- Currently, I’m unable to drive and adjust a seating actuator simultaneously using the switch box. In the R-net software, the “Actuator switches while driving” setting is enabled. Is this limitation also due to my older software version?

I’ve uploaded my default configuration here.

Any help or insights would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

[Burgerman]

Will PM you in a while...

That file is a dealer level one.

I am surprised you can hit a barn doorway with those settings...


I am currently writing a PM.

[Burgerman]

Will a CTRL5 work? Does it allow multiple actuators at once? Does it plug into the R-Net bus? Yep.

You MAY or may not see its controls or setting though. It depends on what frmware and versions your power module has. Each manufacturer can either use stock generic firmware or have extended capabilities. I have 2 sunrise chairs here. One shows the CTRL5 settings. The other doesent. Or didnt until I sent the settings file from the one that did to that chair.

So I cannot garantee it will work, and definitely wort as stock. But I can send you a settings file that SHOULD enable it.

[JenR]

Great. I'll first talk to my dealer if they can install/configure it. IIf not I'll buy one myself and try to ge it to work.

[Burgerman]

They wont have a clue.

[JenR]

Probably not, but I'll give them a chance.

I assume I can not install a Permobil Switchbox ICS (like on my C500) as this uses 'ICS' which is permobil specific?

[Burgerman]

Not if you have any sense.
Everything permobil is a complex black box that you likely cannot program.

The simplest solution is plug and play and thats the Switch-It CTRL-5 ones.
Its super easy to connect and program.

You can on the CJSM2 joystick also program the lighting/indicator/hazard buttons (the 4 around the screen), the mode, profile, horn buttons too to do the same functions as that CTRL box.Witout needing one.

You just program a "long" press on say the lights button to add a latched seat lift. So a press of 1 to 10 seconds, (you decide) makes it go up. And then Down.
Same with the other buttons, other functions.

Like this...
Just testing. One is latched.
Other is one button up, one down. Again you deside. Too long delay is set here.
Lowr left buttong is SEAT ELEVATE here.
Top and bottom buttons on right set to TILT back and forwards. Again, set too long delay...

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/buttons.mp4
And yes you can do this as you drive too.



I personally wouldnt have or want anything front drive because its impossible to make them steer properly because they need a gyro as the platform isnt directionally stable without. That means that if you set the thing up with all 4 steer acceleration and dceleration setting at 100% in order to get decent linear accurate steering it makes the platform unstable and the gyro makes it super snatchy and horrid...

But theres not much you can do about that now.

[Burgerman]

Remap and or add 2nd functions to joystick buttons/softkeys etc.

CJSM2 plug and play joysticks are very configurble. Configure this and no switch box needed at all... And do it as you roll.

[JenR]

My dealer is installing the Ctrl+5 at the moment. I would like to configure it myself. @Burgerman, can you send me a settings file that enables the 'Switch-it' section in the Rnet software? Thanks!

[Burgerman]

I will send you the one on my q700R as it came stock.

What chair it is?

You cant just use all my settings.
Because all your settings, seating, serious stuff like motor compensation ond brake voltages, inhibits etc will all be wrong.

So...

I will send a special file that allows you to only add the bit you need.
If that works great!
ONLY open this with your programmer
You will need to navigate to the menu, then to this fle, then choose the Rnss fle extension as per image. This is only a set of additional settings and not a complete file. And send to your chair.

And here is the file that should give you the Switch-It menu options. And thats ALL it will add. It will not change any other settings or add anything else.

ONLY Switch-It Q700R Pro Stock 6mph 4 pole addition.Rnss

(4.37 KiB) Downloaded 143 times

If that doesent work, only then you can load my own file instead and change ALL other settings back to match your own existing ones.
Here.

Q700R Pro Stock (mine) AX20070214.R-net

(4.37 KiB) Downloaded 135 times

But.
If your dealer is fitting it, the it will already appear on the menu or he wouldnt have been able to program it.
Also, when you say fitting it literally just plugs into the r-net bus. Thats all he need do.

[JenR]

Thanks for the great help!

I opened the subset file in the rnet software but nothing is showing (screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/PnFTpbBl.png). Is this normal and should I just write to the chair anyway?

The dealer is fitting it but I'm not sure if they will be able to make it appear with their rnet software. I asked them to mount and connect the cables and if necessary I can manage the software side. So thanks for helping me with this.

[Burgerman]

With the SUNRISE OEM software and possibly others you will see this:
These are SUBSET files.

OPENED: (look top left)

After you click it:

[Burgerman]

PM me...

In order to SEE the file contents you will need OEM software.
If using Dealer level software you cant see it or edit it, it will give a message asking if you want to send to the controller when you open it. You do.

Then youneed the "workaround" to edit it and other OEM level parameters. So PM me.

[segreen]

Problem with R-Net programming. Chair moves forwards, backwards, left and right okay. When toggling between lift, tilt etc… You have to push the joystick forwards and backwards instead of left and right. To raise or lower the seat you must push the joystick to the left or right instead of forwards and backwards.

Does anyone know how to correct the programming so keeping the chair working with the joystick forward, backward, left and right but changing the toggling left and right between the programs instead of forwards and backwards.

Does this make sense? Any help would be appreciated. I do have the OEM version of the dongle and software.

Thanks, Steve.

[Burgerman]

Have you allowed some numpty to program your chair like the last time by any chance?

Because it sounds very much like the following has happened.

Someone fitted a system to a chair, or fitted new motors.

Then it steered wrong. Like bacwards and forwareds went left/right etc...

So they attempted to correct this by changing the joystick AXIS instead of reversing and/or swapping motors in programming.

So now apart from the issues you are having with seating you are also going to get some extremely odd driving going on as the reality is that now when you go forwards the chair thinks its actually turning and wll be applying all the wrong acceerations and corrections. Same when you turn it thinks you are going backwards and forwards and so settings will not do as you expect either... And it will be slow.

[segreen]

Have you allowed some numpty to program your chair like the last time by any chance?

What are you talking about? No i haven't allowed some numpty to program my chair nor have I in the past .

I came on here asking for some advice not to be insulted... If you don't how to help, just say.

[Burgerman]

I thought you were the guy that came to myy house with burned brakes a decade ago that paid a fortune to 2 companies to configure a chair and they didnt know what they were doing. And had everything set wrong or wired wrong and burned the brake coils on a set of new motors?

If thats not you I appologise!


Also wasnt intended as an insult just a fact - exactly the same as I thought had already happened with a different Dynamic system previously so I thought a repeat of what happened already. You (I wrongly thought?) brought motors, I measured 0.2 Ohm on the brakes. Burned by sending 24V to them by a company that you paid to program a new system.

My memory is 64 years old... Am I wrong? Probably not you!

[Burgerman]

In which case a different question springs to mind.
Has anyone changed anything, and was it working correctly before?

Depending whats is wrong, and the answer to this question I may well know how to fix it. If not then I will say so.

[segreen]

The R-Net system has come off a front wheel drive chair which was working fine and has gone on a rear wheel drive chair. I've changed the parameter in the software regarding front wheel drive from A to B.

Any suggestions?

[Burgerman]

OK.
When you added this, did it turn right or left when you pushed the stick forwards?
If so did you change the joysytick axis direction?
If so, then thats the cause. If not then someone has already done that on the chair that you took the power module from. Incorrectly. I suspect. Its the only way I can see that this is possible.

And if so then theres no way it can ever drive properly. Theres 2 stages to this, lets do stage 1 frst.
Go into programming, and look at the three things in yellow!!!

SET ALL TO NO!!! Right across every profile.
That will correct your joystick SEATING, and tell the power module that forwards is actually forwards.
However now it wont drive properly!!! We will fix that in the next post if any of this is set to yes as I suspect.

CHECK THESE
Below:

[segreen]

That's got it toggling okay. To raise the seat and lower the seat it's forward to raise and back to lower. My other chair is opposite - back to raise and forward to lower. Which is standard or is it just personal preference?

[Burgerman]

Up to you. But set all to NO there....

Now the chair will drive incorrectly right?

Now we need to fix that. Because it will drive 90 degrees out of wack! Test.

[segreen]

If I push the joystick backwards, the chair goes left and if I push the joystick forward, chair goes right. If I push the joystick left the chair goes forward and if I push the joystick right it goes back.

[Burgerman]

So then. What had happened is that some numpty had incorrectly tried to fix the chairs directions as I explained right in the beginning, albeit before you got hold of the controller by swapping the joystick directions instead of the motor directions


So your chair was THINKING it was going forwards when you turn. So in programming the forwards speed and acceleration settings are changing the turn... And the turn speeds are changing forwards and reverse speeds! And always were ever since the numpty thing.

So now we have the JOYSTICK correct you need to do the following:

1. go to the three YELLOW feilds shown below under Motor.
2. Adjust these three, they may say yes or no, and theres no "correct" or universal here as all motors are wired differently there is only "it now drives properly"...
3. Once thats correct, reply here and I will show you where to reverse the seating directions so that it does what you want...

[Burgerman]

Never mind, I know that will work so I will post the seating thing anyway.

So if you have a normal ISM6-L go to the yellow fields below, and change the yes to no, or no to yes as required, as theres no standard for this either.

So the seating goes in the direction you want.

Do as many seati ng channels as you want or need. They are all named below so you cant get them wrong.

[Burgerman]

I swear I know more about there R-net things than the manufacturers do...

Does that now work properly?

Questions.
Did you set motor compensation correctly as if that is wrong all sorts of shit happens. You do not need change it IF they are the same 4 pole and same speed motors for e.g. But if different to the donor chair you must. Fortunately all sunrise chairs seem to use 12V on brakes so that will be correct.

[segreen]

Okay, got it driving okay on Yes, No, Yes.

[Burgerman]

Great! Finally, 3.
See post above for correcting seating directions!

How the hell do people without programming capability manage? And that includes the NHS! I kid you not.

Few years back I had a guy from n.ireland spend a fortune coming here with his family and he was desperate to get his chair to steer properly so he could not destroy his home using a head array. And so that he could get in a van without driving off the ramp... He had spent 2 years fighting the NHS and the manufacturers, and all but given up. He stayed overnight in a local hotel, after a ferry across the irish sea, and it literally took me 10 mins. He was almost speechless except he couldnt speak! When it just went where he expected.
An hour of fine tuning everything after that and he was absolutely amazed.

And this is the 2nd time from n.ireland.
Even longer ago we had another who has passed now and his son contacted me!
For the same reasons. And a steady string of people for 27 years from many places. Why is it so difficult for these experts to deal with this stuff? I suspect they just dont want to know or dont care or dont have the braincells to understand it. Or they dont live it and it means little to them. Dont have the attention span or time? Beats me.

To learn all this stuff just need you to try EVERYTHING on that menu repeatedly at on/off and at extreme high and low settings and test to see what it actally does. Until its VERY CLEAR!!! While using the chair. Commit THAT SETTING effect to memory.
Takes a lot of time, years of practicing, as theres over 1000 menu items! Many are repeated though. But thats the ONLY way to truly understand it.