Soldering

[Burgerman]

Member of my model plane club struggling to make any soldered joint "stick"... He is building a quadcopter and has lots of small wires to solder to a buch of tiny solder pads.

He brought his iron, solder and flux that he is using with him. And I watched...
1. His new circuit board - a flight controller board - was already abused! All the solder pads were blackened ad oxydised with the remains of dirty burned flux on them. He thought he could solder over this...
2. His iron was black, not timed and not thermostatic. As such was way too hot and getting ever hotter... And was useless.
3. His no name flux was no good. I tried it. It did nothing but burn and turn black. It didnt appear to work at all even on clean copper and my ow iron.
4. His solder... Cheap chinese roll, supposedly flux cored but with wjat I dont know. I couldnt make that stuff run at all. It went into balls and fell off!

FIX
1. I threw away his iron. Not thermostatic, impossible to have it at the correct temperature and so impossible to keep properly tinned and shiny. It just burns off the flux and the tip oxidises. Even if you turn it off when not soldering. Instead he used mine.
I then spent 20 mins explaining WHY it must be shiny clean, tinned and looking good at ALL TIMES. And how to keep it this way. Mine is set to 340 degrees C and this changes depending on what you are soldering.
It is always properly tinned and KEPT THIS WAY! Has a shiny coat of solder on its tip always. If yours does not, you simply cannot solder anything efficienty. So: How to TIN it. How to KEEP IT TINNED. Below.

TINNING THE IRON
If your iron tip is not already tinned, do a) below. If it now has a solder coat over all of its surface then throw it away and buy a new tip. These are cheap. Get a pack of 5 or 10.
BUY a ball of brass wire in some type of holder. Ebay or Amazon. Drag the hot iron (at around 360 or so C) through the brass wool. Then dip the tip in FLUX and tin (melt some solder onto the tip) and it will stick and be shiny. Do this iron tinning with LEAD FREE solder. This requires a little higher temperature than lead based solder. Why LEAD FREE? The iron will stay tinned better as it thakes ore heat to melt this. Dont use lead free on the solder job, just on the iron!
Use this brass wool 10 times a minute by dragging the irons tip through it. And reaplying flux/solder in order to keep the iron shiny. Switch it off, allow to cool or the flux will burn away (you see smoke) and the iron will oxidise if not. When the tip isnt clean, tinned and shiny you CANNOT solder things properly. If its not possible to get a shiny tinned tip, replace it. Lower temperature to 330 to 350 after you tin the iron and use lead based 60/40 quality branded cored solder like kester or whatever.

FLUX
For circuit boards, components, etc a fibreglass "pen" is great for de-oxidising the copper or brass on a circuit board. Fine abrasives, scotchbright cloth, or scraping with a blade all expose clean non oxidised metal. You must do this to every surface you intend the solder to stick to unless its all brand new in sealed bags. Solder will not stick to or run to cover the surface if any oxides are present. So CLEAN IT FIRST!!!
You need to add FLUX (of the right type) to all the surfaces you intend to heat up. Or solder. When soldering the flux serves several purposes.
1. It can remove oxides as it is heated up. Which is why having some in the solder is NOT ADEQUATE. That arrives far too late by which time warming up the joint has already caused it to oxydise. Cored solder is a help, its not adequate on its own.
SOME flux type is mildly acidic. It cleans off mildly oxidised surfaces. But this should not be used in electonics as everything will go green and corrode later. We need mild fluxes. Like Rosin or non agressive types. Most cheap flux is crap. I use an old traditional one called FLUXITE which is hard to find today for most jobs. It works great on practically everything. But a big pot... I also use some liquid stuff from a syringe that is suposed to be "no clean" for surface mount stuff. But thats not essential.
2. It stops the solder or the iron oxidising and stay shiny!
3. It causes the solder to flow. As in it will cover the full metal surfaces, soak by capilliary attraction into wires, and cause the joint to look good, flow into position naturally.
4. It helps the iron transfer heat to the joint.

SOLDERING
SET IRON temperature to suit job. big heavy connectors etc may need to be 400.
Tiny circuit boards and small wires may only need 300 or 320C.
Remember that the hotter the iron the faster IT will oxydise (dip in flux to keep it shiny) and then all soldering fails as it needs to be shiny and tinned to transfer the heat to the job.
Remember that you should FLUX the clean fresh wire then tin it before attempting the joint.
Then FLUX and TIN the solder pad or connector before attempting the joint too.
Then re-tin the iron!
Now you should have a shiny tinned wire, a shiny tinned pad or connector, and a shiny hot iron.
The iron should NOT be used to "melt some solder to stick to a joint"...
READ THIS BIT SLOWLY! The irons job is to HEAT UP the two surfaces. So they can melt the solder that is already present as you tinned the pads or connector in advance.
To DO this press the iron and the wire against the connector. All 3 parts should be in contact with the iron. The iron needs to heat up the two parts to be joined. When the solder melts that you already pre applied on both parts it will naturally flow due to the flux and give a nice smooth shiny joint. The moment the solder flows, and goes smooth REMOVE THE IROM. DO NOT MOVE IT TILL COOL!

This all sounds compicated.
Its not. And if it takes moe that 5 seconds to actually solder a wire to a board, or 10 seconds to solder a big connector then you are doing something wrong.

My club member went from could not do a single joint to expert in 1 hour. Now he finds it easy. Get any of the simple things wrong and you will struggle. When it right its trivially easy and quick.

[Burgerman]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluxite-FLU450 ... 0108FM9WI/

Used this stuff since I was 17. Technically it was for pipes. Plumbing. And small tins were used by anyone with a soldering iron... Made in a day where no electronics existed.
Hard to find now but it seems to work on everything.

[Williamclark77]

I did a lot of intricate soldering this weekend. DB25 connectors. I've never tried the lead free stuff to tin the tip with. Never thought about it. I'll have to try that if I can find some left here. I've banned it from my house! I'll never do anything needing to be ROHS compliant and I've never had any good luck using it except on big lugs. Also had trouble desoldering components that used the lead free stuff. Probably my technique was not good for it.

I do keep a wet rag nearby and wipe the tip on it instead of using a brass or stainless wool. Mainly because mine disappeared from my solder station so I tried a wet rag and it worked great. I haven't gotten around to replacing it.

I highly suggest that anybody who does soldering even occasionally purchase a decent soldering station. Being able to control the temperature makes a huge difference and I really like having a hot air nozzle. Most of the irons I bought that were cheap were too hot. It's weird that the solder doesn't melt and flow as good with too much heat because, as you said, it burns the flux away too quickly.

I also want to try some of the flux paste like you linked one day. I've used nothing but rosin in a little can. It works quite well for my use and not corrosive. I've never tried the actual flux paste though.

[Burgerman]

I never do the damp sponge thing any more because it seems to cause the tip to go dull and need re-tinning. Or rather it causes it to oxidise or remove flux. The brass wool things are ebay/amazon cheap!

The guy that came here was amazed that he actually could solder things after all cleanly and professional looking. He was surprised that it was so easy. He had been struggling with the wrong stuff, bad information, for years. He was told that the cored solder was all the flux he needed for e.g. Just to start with...

Yes that tinning the iron with what is basically almost pure tin at higher tempertaure means it stays tinned better used at a lower temp for lead/tin solder. I worked that out only recently!

I tried lead free by mistake at one point. After a couple of days of frustration I couldnt understand why it was so difficult! I ruined a flight controller board. My soldering either didnt work or looked like crap. Then I examined everything. And spotted LEAD FREE on the solder roll...

Never tried a hot air nozzle. Dont really do components. When doing things like connectors on say andersons I use one of those turbo cigarette lighters. Those work great where an iron struggles. But YOU are the temp control. Since I was once a plumber thats not an issue!

[ex-Gooserider]

A brass wool ball does a better job of cleaning tips than a wet sponge / rag - it took a lot to convince me, but it's all I use today... If you DO use the wet sponge, wet it with DISTILLED water. Supposedly if you use tap water the minerals in it will build up on the tip and both mess up the joints and make the tip oxidize and pit faster.

What I've found the big secret to desoldering / removing stuff that was done w/ Lead-Free is to add a good gob of LEAD solder to it, and then use a solder-sucker to remove the larger molten blob... The larger blob seems easier for the sucker to pull in, and the added lead makes the molten solder more fluid...

ex-Gooserider

[Williamclark77]

I just ordered three new brass wool balls for my soldering station. I'll probably find the one for my station about 15 minutes after they are delivered.

What about the 63/37 solder? I have some of it but can't recall being able to tell any difference when I used it.

I don't use the hot air nozzle as intended. I don't do components much. I mostly use it for heat shrink, those solder heat shrink connectors, forming plastic, cleaning up 3d prints, and stuff like that. When turned down low it also works good for blowing away excess rosin. Set it just warm enough to make the rosin soft and not harm the nearby plastic. The little nozzles you can put on it make it fairly intricate.

I keep the same type cigarette lighter torch for the same purposes. I've got to get another one soon. The one I use leaks the butane out and has to be refilled every time I want to use it. I've had it for probably 15 years and have dropped and ran over it dozens of times. It's hard for me to find one that my fingers can operate though. Stupid child safety bs. A Mapp gas torch is easy for me to use. Go figure.

Goose, that's pretty much how I had to remove the solder from a Robotech that I had to replace some mosfets on. You are the one that told me to try that. I wouldn't say it worked great, but it did get the job done, albeit ugly.

[Burgerman]

What about the 63/37 solder? I have some of it but can't recall being able to tell any difference when I used it.

Same here. Probably doesent matter. I just stick to what I know. 60/40 (non chinese) branded stuff like kester or multicore.

I keep 1.2mm and 0.7mm diameter depending on job. And MAGNIFYING prescription glasses! And a big block of Bluetack (2 in fact) to hold stuff for me, not enough hands.

With decent flux and cleaned (or brand new solder pads) on a board, you can use a biggish heat retaining tip, thats bigger than the pads to get perfect solder blobs across all of the solder pads at once that is well defined. Not enough flux or crap solder/flux or non tinned iron and you get bridging, flux burned off, oxidised pads. Not pre cleaned with abrasive or a fibre pen and you can get the "it wont tin" and gone all black thing happening! (Like my freind was also getting because of cheap non tinned, too hot iron...)

I use to have a cheap non thermostatic iron that was just 15 watts. It would glow orange if left plugged in. WAY too hot. Impossible to tin. And it had little thermal mass, no power so it went too cold when you touch it to a terminal or a copper trace...

I now just use a Hakko for the last 15 years. This model FX-888D is now recently discontinued. I would buy it again... Its only 70W but its temp control is fast! If it cools a degree or two in contact with work it rapidly responds. It aso does not get hotter than you set and so doesent oxidise fast.

But theres plenty of decent cheaper alternatives today. I like the weight of the holder/cleaner too. And the un-meltable ultra flexible silicone cable, and the multitude of different tips that are cheap on amazon!

[Burgerman]

Cleaning depends of what it is.

Boards I ise a fibre pen. Amazon. Then a smear of flux.

Wires I dont clean, as they are usually clean straight after you strip them. Dip in flux...

Connectors are usually clean, or pre tinned, zinc coated or gold plated. No need to clean. A trace of flux is all thats needed. Then TIN or add solder and crimp! And then heat it later...

Big bits of metal like pipes, or large copper traces may need scotchbright green stuff, steel wool, or whatever before flux and tinning. If the metal is not shiny copper or brass, with zero oxides it will never solder. And will get worse when you try.

Secret to soldering is easy.
1. CLEAN and remove all oxides whatever that takes.
2. Flux BEFORE oxides re-form. That happens faster when warmer. So dont heat the metal first!
3. Tin with solder.
4. Assemble pre tinned joint and heat. Add some extra solder if needed as you do so. Use the solder you add to melt and transfer the heat to both sides of the joint. When it runs and looks shiny stop!

[shirley_hkg]

Yes. Get a soldering station.

This is more than you need, but why not if it is very affordable @£37.

Over 200w max, and many types of tips T12 / C245 ...


https://youtu.be/UPuScab-H4w?si=wAFO5mOZbtY3BW0k

[shirley_hkg]

I have the little brother for years.

110W, T12 / C245 ... @£17

3 preset temperatures. Can be powered by
24V dc.

Tempted to get a £37 T200, as I need a spare.

[Burgerman]

As well as the ability to solder things. We all have needs to strip and build or repair things. Homes, heating systems, hobby stuff, furniture, cars, garden tools, electric beds etc etc. We need to fix and maintain or even put up a shelf or modify something.

So we all need tools. Money spent on tools that last a lifetime, is money well spent. I go a little overboard here. I have pillar drills, lathe, workbenches, vices, all kinds of wrenches, spanners, sockets, big power tools, hammer drills etc. Gas powered torches, and any number of connectors, pipe fittings etc.

And I have many useful 12V small portable tools.

For e.g to strip and work on anything easily and quickly you need a powered recoil free wrench! Works on screws, bolts, allen deads, etc.

Like below.

[Burgerman]

And we need to drill holes.

That needs a drill.
Below is a drill, with a half inch chuck, so that you can fit larger drills into it, and the big orange hole saws etc. And taps to thread holes. And so on.

[Burgerman]

And we need to grind, cut, and strip paint etc too.

So a tiny 12V grinder...
WITH adequate blades, polishers, grinding wheels etc.

[Burgerman]

Also have a bosch version of the Dremmel, which is useful. And many aerosol cans of paints, and every type of epoxy, superglue, wood glue, filler, loctite, activators, syringes, oils, and a bench grinder to keep stuff sharp like lathe tools.

Also have degreasers, and oild, fuels, solvents, acids, and stuff. You never know what you will need. Like I have a mass of stainless metric bolts of every size and type imaginable. And chargers, cables, adapters, clamps, measuring tools end so on.

Also multimeters, antenna tuning meters, current clamps, 4 power supplies, a mountain of chair spares and R-Net control systems and programmers etc.

All this stuff was built up over years. And has freed me from the "experts" and allowed me to build and repair and improve everything in and outside of my house. From cars, house repairs, fixing everything imaginable all my life. So it looks expensive. In reality its saved me tens of thousands. DIY solar system for e.g. And everything to do with chairs.

[snaker]

Yes. Get a soldering station.

This is more than you need, but why not if it is very affordable @£37.

Over 200w max, and many types of tips T12 / C245 ...


https://youtu.be/UPuScab-H4w?si=wAFO5mOZbtY3BW0k

I want to upgrade the solder station. The one like in the video is not sold here. I only find GVM T245 (130W), ESD T210 (75W), OSS T12-X (72W). GVM and ESD are advertised using Japanese electronic components. OSS is a little cheaper. Can you recommend which one should I choose?

[shirley_hkg]

Genuine JBC C245 tips are expensive, while clones are still need to be better.

I suggest T12. Save money for more tips to suit various applications.


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[shirley_hkg]

Video in English.

https://youtu.be/_gDebglRAv4?si=6bg5XQKKrrtAd0WW

[Burgerman]

Theres a newer version, that is a little better. More bench freindly! Still same 245 iron, same JBC tips, same 200 watts.

And I just ordered one.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006172847327.html
Ordered the 220v, 245 handle, 3 tips... With a massive discount day. Which has gone now. Still cheap though.

So if its any good I will sell my Hakko one to pay for it! If not then I will sell his one!
(Any offers? Complete with many tips, and clean and unmarked hakko).

Being disabled soldering is much harder for us. It means we can move stuff around, reach for things, etc. When I do this I need magnifying glass, help, etc from a carer! And I drop everything. And end up doing soldering from my bed laid down as its the only way I can have any trunk stability and so use both hands at once to hold stuff! Seriously. Carers are essenial!

And ordered 2 geniune non chinesium tips. A 5mm wide one for connectors. And a horses hoof type 2mm one for hobby stuff which is small.
Its cheaply made, but it looks very effective in that it rapidly ramps up power as needed. So it can solder heavy stuff, connectors etc as well as small things. 200 watts and rapid temperature control response.

One of the BIGGEST advantages for us being disabled is that it automatically turns off power and cools the tip when you put it back into the holder. That means that we dont burn off the flux, oxidise the tip while we are struggling to position something. Then it heats back up super fast. The alternative that I do now is try and reach to turn off the solder staion. Thats easy if you are not disabled... Much harder when you are! So this is automated. No more black irons!


youtu.be/-ug7rLdOWto

[shirley_hkg]

That would be even better if idle temperature is programmable, instead of complete power cut.

[Burgerman]

Also reaching to change temperature on the hakko means leaning to my bedside table (spasm city!) and pressing buttons and waiting. That tap the iron on the silver contact thingy is going to help as ts fast.

Why do you need that

Components? 330? To not damage boards or parts. Heavier wires? General use 350. Connectors (or coins!) 380 to 400... As needed.

Tin with lead free!
Solder with flux and leadded solder!

Since you probably cant feel heat or paiin (I cant) make sure you have a carer watching and ready to brush off melted solder or a hot iron if you drop it fast!
Cover yourself with towels or something where possible. Alert to the dangers. This is reasonably safe with solder. I do not weld stuff and thats why!

[Burgerman]

That would be even better if idle temperature is programmable, instead of complete power cut.

It is. He has it set to 100 in the vid.
Because of burning temperature and disability I will likely set it to less or off as I frequently knock stuff over... Or the iron out of its base. Did it yesterday. Cought the wire. It ended up on my leg where I cant reach to move it. So my carer grabbed it fast. Hakko stays hot. This one gives you a few seonds to heat back up so more grabbing time!

[Burgerman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_AppUruSJc

Heres the other reason.
I already have the blue/yelow hakko.
And will be swapping to this 200w one.


youtu.be/Q_AppUruSJc

[Burgerman]

New iron arrived.
Its great. The temp control is very rapid and because it can do 200 watts (250 peak) it can solder unfeasably large cables and wires.
The tips it comes with are really designed for circuit board or SMD stuff. The whole iron is tiny and short compared to the hakko one I am used to. Thats good. It can show you graphs of power and temperature. The tiny 3 soldering tips it comes with cannot transfer much heat unless you have a few skills and know how to get the solder to do that for you...
It cant transfer more than about a third of its power this way though. So I ordered a couple of larger tips...

Other than that I definitely recommend, with the 245 handle.

https://www.aixun.com/downloads/t320%20 ... ual_en.pdf

AiXsun T320 good balance price v capability.
I updated its firmware from 1.12 to latest 1.14 although cant tell any difference!

[shirley_hkg]

At 14:10 of the vid, he mentioned NASA don't recommend solder above the cup.

I always put as much solder as I could to fill and round the joint wholly. I though more solder meant better conductivity.

Am I wrong, or make things worse ?

[Burgerman]

Me too. I think iits more about the heat damaging the plastic casing. If the iron is hit enough, and so you can be fast and pre tinned then I have no issues. Anyway we are not building rockets hopefully!

I have been testing 60/40 and 37/63 solders on various test items. And now I can see why they make that 37/63 one...
It melts at a lower temperature, maybe 30 to 40 degrees. And so is easier to use on circuit boards without damaging solder pads or components etc. Same on connectors, and wires - less likely to melt the plastic.

So now I have a new favorite.
I use various different fluxes.
I use LEAD FREE solder for tinning the soldering iron tips as it melts (and needs) at a 50 centigrade higher temp. And so when iron temp reduced it stays tinned better. (Still need very regular cleaning and flux)
I now prefer lead based solder with 63/37 as it is slightly lower temp than 60/40 and easier to work with without oxidation or damage.

[ex-Gooserider]

One of the reasons a lower fill on solder cups is preferred is that solder wicking up stranded wire makes it rigid so you have a higher risk of flex fatigue failures just above the connection. In addition as the solder wicks up the wire it carries some of the flux with it under the insulation where it is basically impossible to clean but does still slowly corrode the copper wire...

Less solder, but still enough to hold the wire, works just as well electrically, and gives a joint that is more flexible close to the connector and is easier to clean. Even on a PCB, you only want enough solder to make a good connection, not big blobs...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

This solder wicking up the wire thing makes no sense to me. For several reasons.

1. When I solder a connector I make sure that I tin each half but only the correct amount. No wicking... And then add just enough heat for the solder to fuse and run and go shiny and stop. Nothing wicks up a wire.

2. If it did, then its no different. It has to flex at some point and where that flexing starts be it at the edge of a crimped connector or at the edge of a soldered one, wicked or otherwise then its all exactly the same!

[shirley_hkg]

One of the BIGGEST advantages for us being disabled is that it automatically turns off power and cools the tip when you put it back into the holder. That means that we dont burn off the flux, oxidise the tip while we are struggling to position something. Then it heats back up super fast. The alternative that I do now is try and reach to turn off the solder staion. Thats easy if you are not disabled... Much harder when you are! So this is automated. No more black irons!


youtu.be/-ug7rLdOWto

This is surely a very disability friendly feature.

How much did you pay for it ?

Taobao has one that's similar. £40 I guess.

https://youtube.com/shorts/YNItJ1JTBus? ... fIPkzIKqw0

[Burgerman]

That link no working for me?


I used this iron on some very small circuit boards and surface mount components. Its a small, light and short iron, and I have many different tips. This makes it much easier to do super fine and small stuff compared to the older iron.

I soldered a few test connectors too. Some huge ones, and heavy cable. It is a 200 watt iron. And its temperature heat/power up/ stability is superb. I can easily solder big heavy connectors too. Although I use much bigger tips for this. All in all, this iron is highly recommended!

I now have around 8 different tips. From tiny to ones that look like a small hammer! As well as cutting blades, and a wide/thin one for doing many contacts at a time on a microchip. I like this iron!

[shirley_hkg]

https://youtu.be/fg_sv1c9TCI?si=GIlov8DPmIBfvkZl