Programming Otto Bock C2000

[c500user]

Hi,

I am reviving an old thread and hope there is some new info.

My C2000 worked fine. I only used it for long distances, and never in winter (too cold for me outside, brr). After moving to sunnier climes I broke my leg. I had to change the configuration from RWD to FWD to accomodate individual electrically adjustable legrests and had a senior guy from Otto Bock help me out with this and any programming issues I had.
Then covid hit (lockdowns) so the chair was sitting on charge in the shed. It was only used sporadically since.
A week or so ago I wanted to take it for a run. After transferring I adjusted the tilt and the electronics switched off. I switched it on again but the same repeated a number of times. Checking the error log seemed a sensible first step. My contact at Otto Bock no longer works there, and getting an overpriced tech from a dealer (who has no idea what he is doing) to look at it does not seem a sensible option. The C2000 has been out of production for a while, Enable50 (the Curtis system) is unknown to most people ...

I am going to check all the cabling etc in the next week or so, when my helper is back, but I realised I want to keep this charge for years, if possible, so have to find a way to solve the programming issue.

I have the CPF file of the configuration after the mods, but that can only be read by version 4 of the 1314 software. I am not sure if the old version 3 will support whatever they did to the chair. Besides, I will have to dig up the cable and USB/CAN converter I made years ago. Probably still packed up from when we moved 6 years ago :-(

I thought I would bite the bullit and buy the 1314 SW + dongle. I can buy the OEM version in China, and it comes with the 1309 box.
https://www.nocoev.com/product/1314-4402.htm#gsc.tab=0
But, according to the 1314 v4 software I have, the 1309 is not good and I need a CAN-USB gateway. (see attached screenshot)

I probably need the the CANfox
https://www.sontheim-industrie-elektron ... es/canfox/
I have emailed Sontheim, but no reply.
The one listed inthe link woodygb posted a while ago looks similar but has a different connector, and probabaly no-one will know the pinout.
https://eltra-trade.com/products/ifm-electronic-ec2112

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

PS If you know of anyone who sells spare electronics, pref. 2nd hand (1750-4403, 1754-6003 and 1751-6103), please let me know. I like the C2000 and would like to get it back to good working condition, and have spares so I can enjoy it for many more years.

[Burgerman]

The programming software probably wont help. It uses a single output to drove the chair. I say chair but its really a scooter. And all the logic that controls the servo that determines which way the caster wheels (I call thenm this but they are NOT casters) point is not controlled by the curtiss controller. It must have some other electronics on board that does all that. Which the curtis programmer will not work on. Just like permobil do. Even the power module isnt a stock powerchair dual channel tank steer mix one but a seperate single channel output version.

In any case it sounds like your battery is toast.

[c500user]

Sorry, John. I know you don't like it, but it is not a single drive scooter. It has 2 motors (one on each drive wheel), full tank steer plus servo controlled steering.
No Otto Bock electronics. It is all Curtis. No ICS like problems as with Permobil.
The 1314 software accesses everything.

[woodygb]

You WILL need a CAN-USB gateway for your enAble50.

The earlier software will work with the Chinese A1-CAN Adapter , but as I recall it will not be recognised by the later programming software.

A 1309 clone is fairly easy to make , but NO GOOD for your needs.

Pin out for EC2112

[woodygb]

Manual for EC2112

https://www.manua.ls/ifm/ec2112/manual?p=6

[c500user]

Thanks woodygb!
I'll order the EC2112 CAN-USB and hope Curtis have not put some embedded code in the one they sold.

[Burgerman]

Enable 50 cannot control the servo motors that steer it single motor or otherwise so the programmer cannot control whatever 3rd partylogic and feedback position sensor electronics are used to do that. So you still cant program it like any normal chair. You may access some of its paramters but be very careful what you change as it may not do what it says on the tin. Also your description sounds like battery issues. Voltage dropping off under load from bad or dead batteries or bad connections.

[woodygb]

Thanks woodygb!
I'll order the EC2112 CAN-USB and hope Curtis have not put some embedded code in the one they sold.

Please update me on the result.

Cheers Woody

[c500user]

I have ordered this one.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/185410525702
I'll let you know if it works.

[c500user]

I think I got the cheapest one around. I offered the vendor US$175 (asking US$259) and he agreed. According to ebay he has 2 left.

I have attached the zipped manual to this message.
The unit I ordered does not have the standard connector, so I will have to work out the CAN signal wires later. Unfortunantely the manual does not show the colors used in the pinout. Luckily there are only 5 wires!

I could not upload the MT API driver I downloaded from Sontheim today to this site. The zip file is too large (nearly 20MB). The link that worked today is https://www.sontheim-industrie-elektronik.de/fileadmin/user_data/Dokumente/Treiber/MT_API_V7.04.8100.zip
If anyone is interested, download today before it is gone. The internet is full of broken links.

[woodygb]

The required drivers are included with the later 1314 software and will install automatically with the first install of the 1314-4402 software on the P.C..

OR you can find them here in the 1314 folder...

[c500user]

Thanks. I checked and the driver in my Curtis directory is CANfox_Installer_7v4_36.exe (same as in your screenshot above).
The Sontheim driver is marked as MT_API_V7.04.8100. No changelog, so no idea what has changed. I did notice the Curtis file is dated 30-4-2013. The Sontheim is newer with files dated 2017 and 2018.
When I receive the CANfox/EC2112, I will try it with the file supplied with the Curtis software first.

[Burgerman]

Programmer asside, because it worked previously, so cant realistically be a programming issue, I would check battery voltage under a 50A to 100A approx load. If it drops significantly because of internal restance or bad connection that will cause your problem.

[c500user]

I don't think it is the batteries. It has two 126Ah Odyssey PC2250 in series. Not new, but on charger when the chair is not used and they have not had many cycles (I only use the chair once in a while for long walks).
I checked voltage drop while starting from standstill and it was not dramatic. I assume that draws much more current than a simple tilt actuator, which was what I accessed (while standing still) and caused the electronics to switch off.

I was hoping that the problem resulted in a new entry in the error log, which I will be able to read once the CANfox/EC2112 arrives.

I don't have a decent lifting platform to work on the chair. My helper is getting on in years (aren't we all) and working on the floor is becoming a problem. What do you use?
I am looking at getting an MC40, a quad/lawnmower/motorcycle lift. See https://happ.com.au/hoist_and_lift/mc10-motorbike-hoist/

Based on what happened, I think the issue is a break or short circuit in a cable resulting in the electronics shutting down. I don't know if they re-routed the cables properly when the chair was modified from RWD to FWD and the electric legrests were added. The joystick is now on the other side of the chair, and the Piko buttons used to operating tilt and recline are also on the opposite side. If the cables got pinched or crushed, breaks or short circuits could occur.

[c500user]

It has been a few weeks, and I can confirm the stupidity of dealer techs.

After taking the chair apart, we found the following:

1. Piko button
I have a Piko button for recline and a 2nd Piko button for tilt. After a large modification that was done by a dealer two years ago, the recline button no longer worked and I had to go through the joystick menu (annoying) to change the backrest. According to the dealer the Piko button was faulty when they received the chair to do the mods, which I knew was BS.

Now that the seat is off and I have access to all the cabling I discovered that they shortened the factory cable that is attached to the Piko button (probably because they damaged it) and replaced the molded 3.5mm (mono headphone) connector with a new one. The problem is that they did not do it properly and did not test their work. They soldered the shield of the coax cable, in the process melting the insulation of the signal wire which caused a short circuit. After resoldering the connector the button works fine.

2. Lights
None of my lights (headlights, tail lights, indicators front and rear) worked. I had not noticed this until recently as I did not use it in the evenings and never use indicators.
The cause was simple. The OLD configuration (before the mods) specified the correct light voltages: 6V and 12V. They had changed this in the NEW configuration to 24V. Guess what happens when you apply 24V to a 6V or 12V light bulb?

I have ordered new light bulbs and we are replacing/rerouting some of the cabling. I hope to be able to put the wheelchair back together again in a week or 2.

Programming interface
I received the EC2112/CANfox USB interface I ordered from ebay (see messages above). After plugging it in to the Windows PC, it downloaded and installed the drivers (Windows recognises it and mentions CANfox and CANfox MI in the USB table).
When I started the 1314-4402 software, the program recognised it was connected to the USB port and downloaded something to the CANfox interface.

My next step will be to see if I can now properly connect to the C2000 so I can run the 1314-4402 software to change parameters. For that I first have to figure out which of the 5 wires are CAN+ and CAN- (the other 3 are RS232 Tx Rx and Gnd) and try to make a suitable connector to stick in the silly 3+2 pin non-standard XLR.
Note: From factory the CANfox comes with two 9 pin Sub-D connectors (1 for RS-232, 1 for CAN) and the pinout is specified in the documentation. Mine has non-standard cabling and has a 6 pin Deutsch connector with unknown pinout.

I will let you know if it works.

[Burgerman]

Still cant see how pogramming can be related to the issue.

[c500user]

I don;t know if programming is the issue and don't think it is either. I would like to be able to read the error log. It may shows excessive amps going to the actuator or some other error. I have no idea what the controller logs, but will only find out it there is any hint of the cause when I can access the log.

I will need access to programming to re-map the now again electrically functioning Piko button (they removed it from the configuration) and change the light voltages so I do not blow up the replacement light bulbs.
When that is all done, I can get back to the original problem.

I checked the batteries again last week. Slightly lower voltage (we have been testing actuators and a few other things, so no surprise) but similar low internal resistance.
When the chair is back together I can use a voltmeter to check the voltage under load, while using a clamp meter to check the load. If the batteries turn out to be dodgy, they will be replaced by LiFePO4 sooner rather than later.

[Burgerman]

If they read 2mohm theres nthing wrong that will stop the chair working. Thats way better info than any load test.

[c500user]

Please update me on the result.

I am afraid the EC2112 I bought does not allow me to use the 1314-4402 software.

I was able to locate which of the 5 wires were the 2 CAN wires using a scope.
I soldered a modified DIN8 connector to those wires (as described by user falco peregrinus in 2013 in the Q Logic programming interface thread).
The connector plugs into the correct 2 pins of the 3+2 XLR socket on the handset.

A few things were mentioning:
1. I can connect to the wheelchair (I get an error when I do not plug it into the wheelchair, but no error when it is plugged in).
2. No data at all is shown, not even the model number of the modules.
3. Only later did I notice that after plugging in the EC2112, the 1314-4402 software drops to USER access level and this cannot be changed back. Even after unplugging the EC2112, the software stays at USER level. Opening a saved CPF file that previously gave full access, now only the USER level parameters can be seen.
4. After removing the software and reinstalling it, the software works as OEM software again and all parameters in the previously saved CPF file are visible. As soon as the EC2112 is plugged in, you are downgraded from OEM to USER access, which remains until the program is removed and reinstalled.

It looks like Curtis added something to the EC2112 (probably just a bit of data somewhere in the firmware) so that a generic EC2112 will not work on Enable50. I assume this means that the "official" Otto Bock programming adapter (which is an EC2112) has the access level encoded, similar to the R-Net dongle.

Back to the drawing board I am afraid.

[woodygb]

Try with the earlier 4401 software.

I am also going to send you a registry hack that may or may not work.

[c500user]

Try with the earlier 4401 software.

I am also going to send you a registry hack that may or may not work.

Thanks woody.

At some stage this afternoon I tried the 4401, but no joy. That was while trying out different things (so many permutations and combinations), so it is worth retrying now that the cable etc seems to be sorted.
Thanks for the hack. The laptop I had been using is in my shed, so a job for tomorrow (10pm here).
I did try it on my desktop just now and noticed it sets the access level from OEM to FACTORY! Quite possible that it will do the trick.

My mechanical friend won't be back until Thursday, and I probably will not be able to test the software/EC2112 with the C2000 before then. It is still in parts and the seat will need to connected, etc, which is probably beyond what my otherwise lovely carers are capable of doing for me.

I'll report back when I have news.

[woodygb]

it sets the access level from OEM to FACTORY!

[c500user]

A short update.

I did the following on my laptop with 1314-4402 4.6.10 installed. It had been used on Thursday with the EC2112 and the software showed USER access.

1. Start 1314-4402, shows USER (as expected), exit program.
2. Run register hack woody sent
3. Start 1314-4402, shows FACTORY, exit program.

So far, this is as expected, because it did the same on my desktop PC. However, will plugging the EC2112 in get me back to USER access or will it stay FACTORY?

4. Plug in EC2112, USB light on EC2112 comes on.
5. Start 1314-4402, shows FACTORY.

So, whatever the hack did, plugging in the EC2112 does not reset me back to USER.
Does the SW really recognise the EC2112/is it talking to it?

6. Try to connect (nothing connected to EC2112), CAN led blinks (i.e. connection between sw and EC2112 works). Software still shows FACTORY.

As mentioned above, I plugged in the EC2112 before I started the 1314-4402 sw, Will it be different when I unplug and plug in again while the sw is running?

7. Unplug EC2112.
8. Plug in EC2112, USB light on EC2112 comes on. Software still shows FACTORY.

What about after exiting and restarting the sw?

9. Exit 1314-4402, start 1314-4402, shows FACTORY, exit program.

So, the hack seems to be doing the job. One thing that has me a bit concerned is that the Alt → Options -> Set access level to box shows USER highlighted and this cannot be changed.

On my desktop PC (that previously had the hack applied!) I tried the following:
a. remove the 1314-4402 software.
b. install 4.6.10 from install file.
c. start sw, shows OEM (as expected) and access level OEM is highlighted in option box. This can be changed to User, Service, Dealer or OEM and the chosen option is shown on the bottom line of the screen.
d. while the sw is running, plug in EC2112. Sw shows OEM access level.
e. Keep EC2112 connected, exit sw and restart sw. Still shows OEM and the access level option can be changed to dealer etc.

Conclusions, starting with a fresh system (no register hack applied) with 1314-4402 (OEM) installed:
1. Connecting EC2112 changes something so that sw default to USER level.
2. Running the register hack seems to gives FACTORY accesss (I can seen more parameters in a saved configuration file than I can at OEM level), but the access level option no longer works and I have not yet tried if I can actually work at this level when connected to a wheelchair.
3. Subsequently removing and reinstalling 4.6.10 seems to give me back normal OEM level and (un)plugging the EC2112 does not seem to have an effect on this.

Next step is to see if I can successfully connect to my C2000. I do not think I will be able to try that before Thursday.

To be continued.

[c500user]

I am afraid I was too hasty in my conclusions.
On my desktop PC, I was back to OEM and everything seemed to be fine. Trying to communicate with the EC2112 (with nothing attached) has thrown me back to USER level again.

Conclusion for now is that as soon as the sw connects to the EC2112, it rewrites something in the register.

[c500user]

Last update for today.

I removed 1314-4402 and all Sontheim software from my desktop pc. I then ran ccleaner to get rid of old registry entries. Rebooted, ran ccleaner again to make sure all rubbish was indeed gone,

I installed 1314-4402 4.6.10. It installed without issues and showed OEM access. The EC2112 had NOT been plugged in and CANfox was not an available option in the communications section.
I then plugged the EC2112 in. Windows downloaded drivers automatically from windows update (took a few minutes).
The 1314-4402 sw was still running (showing OEM access). I changed the communication setting to CANfox (which option was now available) and saw the SW change the access level at the bottom of the screen to USER.

I exited 1314-4402, ran woodygb's hack and restarted the sw. Factory access.
I then connected to the EC2112 (timeout of course because nothing on the CAN bus) it stayed at factory. Unplugging the EC2112 and plugging it back in does not change this.
Could it be that certain data is only read from the EC2112 if the pc has been rebooted?
It is past 10pm here now, so enough for today.

[woodygb]

I do not know as I have NEVER had or used a Curtis CANBUS system.

[FelipeOliveira]

Last update for today.

I removed 1314-4402 and all Sontheim software from my desktop pc. I then ran ccleaner to get rid of old registry entries. Rebooted, ran ccleaner again to make sure all rubbish was indeed gone,

I installed 1314-4402 4.6.10. It installed without issues and showed OEM access. The EC2112 had NOT been plugged in and CANfox was not an available option in the communications section.
I then plugged the EC2112 in. Windows downloaded drivers automatically from windows update (took a few minutes).
The 1314-4402 sw was still running (showing OEM access). I changed the communication setting to CANfox (which option was now available) and saw the SW change the access level at the bottom of the screen to USER.

I exited 1314-4402, ran woodygb's hack and restarted the sw. Factory access.
I then connected to the EC2112 (timeout of course because nothing on the CAN bus) it stayed at factory. Unplugging the EC2112 and plugging it back in does not change this.
Could it be that certain data is only read from the EC2112 if the pc has been rebooted?
It is past 10pm here now, so enough for today.

Good evening

I'm going through the same situation! I hope you were successful!

If so, could you tell me the solution?

I have a C1000DS, Enable50

I have an HHP 1313-4331 (OEM) - no success

1314-4401 and 1314-4402. The same thing happens with several versions.
Using:
- 1309 (made with a Woody PI) - no success
- 1309 (RS232) reprogrammed by me in ftProg - no success
- Genuine 1309, but with a DB9 connector, for a 4-pin Molex - no success

I recently purchased an HHP 1311 (OEM). I'm waiting for it to arrive, expected next week.

A 1210 controller (scooter). All of the above situations give me 100% access. No difficulty.

But I need to access this Enable50. I also have an Enable40 for a Quantum Q6edge waiting.

If even after these two years of posting, could you update me on the results? And how did you achieve them?

Thanks,
Felipe Oliveira
Brazil

[Burgerman]

Could it be that this is an intended consequence designed to prevent someone trying to use a normal programmer on the servo steer/mono linked output modules used on the servo steered chair? Because obviously theres some large differences in the way they work and the firmware etc.

You may find that it all works OK on the tank steer chairs anyway?



The way these things steer is like a car going backwards. It cant turn in place, it cannot tank steer. You have to point the steer wheels by servo and then drive forwards or backwards. Kind of works along a road. But terrible in a small space. I tried the same exact layout on the Meyra chair. Albeit that used a similar setup (a mono internally linked power module, and a modified module to work the servo to steer). In that case it was R-net and the same problem with programming. The normal setting just dont apply as it works completely differently. You can connect, but its all alien!

As an asside, you COULD transplant the Meyra chairs full system to the Otto Bock rear steer servo controlled chair. But I suspect programming will still be problematic without Meyras own special programmer. And the actual scooter/servo system will always steer oddly regardless.

Ignore this guys obvious hand/control issues, and watch the actual way it steers. To me that would be terrible!


youtu.be/hEtuC1vA5Pg

[c500user]

I just sent Felipe's a PM.

Yes, the C2000 is a bastard to steer in a small space haha. I used my 15km/h C2000 to go for long walks (40km+), and for that it is great. Longer wheelbase than a normal wheelchair, wider as well, so very stable and comfortable. I had the luxury of living in Holland where there are good footpaths and bikepaths everywhere. Where I now live in Australia, there are no footpaths or bikepaths within 5km from my house. So, to go on a long walk I have to go to a suitable urban area first (I live in a rural area).

I never got the OEM dongle I bought 2 years ago to work. Woody helped with tips but it was no go. I found an original one online and it should be in my shed on the wheelchair parts shelf. I have not yet used it because I need to replace the batteries first (8 x 300Ah EVE standing by), fix a few issues with lights and some other things. But for that I have to wait for spring because it is too cold for me in the shed at the moment.

Sorry I have no magic solution for you.

I hope your OEM handheld programmer works.

[FelipeOliveira]

Good morning! I received my Ottobock Can-bus cable…

It's not feasible to disable the 2 directional servos!!