Lift or no lift...

[Raro]

Wow, that’s really nice to know there are options on eBay to get the joysticks and control units.
There is 1 thing I don’t understand: you said that it is necessary a 300€ programmer, but I thought that a cable and software was enough.

For VR2, the cable and software are enough, but for rnet, you need the programmer.

[Burgerman]

I have at least 5 spare full 120A r-net systems on the shelf. And 3 more r-net chairs. So 8 complete systems, with a bunch of extras like some joysticks, cables gyros, IO units, attendant controls, etc

So 300 purchase price for a dongle (I paid 400 for OEM but dealer can work as OEM too) eans it adds around 300 div by 8... is £37 per chair or system.

I would have 3 undrivable badly programmed chairs without a dongle!
I would not be able to use any of my spares or configure a new chair.

For e.g if I bought a chair with a linx system, I would swap it for r-net. Then eBay/sell the dynamic lynx... The same with the pride unprogramable qlogic2 and 3 chairs. It means I dont care what system it comes with. And low power (cheap low spec) ebay used chairs become viable.

[faico_26]

I have at least 5 spare full 120A r-net systems on the shelf. And 3 more r-net chairs. So 8 complete systems, with a bunch of extras like some joysticks, cables gyros, IO units, attendant controls, etc

So 300 purchase price for a dongle (I paid 400 for OEM but dealer can work as OEM too) eans it adds around 300 div by 8... is £37 per chair or system.

I would have 3 undrivable badly programmed chairs without a dongle!
I would not be able to use any of my spares or configure a new chair.

For e.g if I bought a chair with a linx system, I would swap it for r-net. Then eBay/sell the dynamic lynx... The same with the pride unprogramable qlogic2 and 3 chairs. It means I dont care what system it comes with. And low power (cheap low spec) ebay used chairs become viable.

Ok, I understand now, thanks, I’m learning a lot!

[JohnnyUK]

Interesting thread covering the practicalities of lift/tilt/recline to meet a range of individual needs. I'm new to powerchairs so still learning, must admit that a chair without these functions is nicer to drive and lower. I've got 2 Quantum Edge 3 Stretto's both with lift and tilt and find these functions invaluable, worth the extra weight, height of chair and the weight increase for me. The Stretto's are 460mm high to seat pan, 490mm on the tiny Q300 is enough to make it difficult to pick letters off the floor and will feel too high in my van. I only weigh 55kg so weight isn't a problem for me

I've just ordered a Sunrise Q300R from Wheelchair Services (WCS) with powered lift, tilt and recline but it's 1" higher than my Stretto's. How come Dietz can do the same combination and maintain a low seat height? But WCS won't allow a Dietz (I can't negotiate like Burgerman), I've been told it's Sunrise or nothing and haven't got the stamina to argue with them anymore so I capitulated and paid my £1600 'personal contribution' for a chair I don't want. C'est la vie

Burgerman said it's 30 secs to lift his chair (which chair?) does anyone know how long the Q300 takes? I noticed the Sunrise actuators are noisy by comparison with mine, the Stretto's are very quiet and lift 300mm in 17 seconds which is fine. I find Lift is essential for some transfers, cooking, shopping and many other things it gets regular use and doesn't seem to affect battery life too much. I'm looking forward to getting Recline (and Tilt) on the Q300 as it will help prevent pressure sores which I'm prone to.

[faico_26]

Interesting thread covering the practicalities of lift/tilt/recline to meet a range of individual needs. I'm new to powerchairs so still learning, must admit that a chair without these functions is nicer to drive and lower. I've got 2 Quantum Edge 3 Stretto's both with lift and tilt and find these functions invaluable, worth the extra weight, height of chair and the weight increase for me. The Stretto's are 460mm high to seat pan, 490mm on the tiny Q300 is enough to make it difficult to pick letters off the floor and will feel too high in my van. I only weigh 55kg so weight isn't a problem for me

I've just ordered a Sunrise Q300R from Wheelchair Services (WCS) with powered lift, tilt and recline but it's 1" higher than my Stretto's. How come Dietz can do the same combination and maintain a low seat height? But WCS won't allow a Dietz (I can't negotiate like Burgerman), I've been told it's Sunrise or nothing and haven't got the stamina to argue with them anymore so I capitulated and paid my £1600 'personal contribution' for a chair I don't want. C'est la vie

Burgerman said it's 30 secs to lift his chair (which chair?) does anyone know how long the Q300 takes? I noticed the Sunrise actuators are noisy by comparison with mine, the Stretto's are very quiet and lift 300mm in 17 seconds which is fine. I find Lift is essential for some transfers, cooking, shopping and many other things it gets regular use and doesn't seem to affect battery life too much. I'm looking forward to getting Recline (and Tilt) on the Q300 as it will help prevent pressure sores which I'm prone to.

Same here with a new Q300R with seat lift. Seat height is about 46cms approx. The seat lasts 24 secs to reach the 30cms, rather slow.

[Burgerman]

All my chairs take 25 or 26 secs give or take empty and 30 secs with me sat in it... Rather slow? It drives me mental!!!

[faico_26]

All my chairs take 25 or 26 secs give or take empty and 30 secs with me sat in it... Rather slow? It drives me mental!!!

Yes, I agree, it’s frustrating.

[faico_26]

I was thinking to modify the seat or something to have the seat height a bit lower. It doesn’t look easy. But an idea came to my mind: in the front castors there are 2 holes up so the front tyres can be put in lower height. The question is how to low the rear side of the chair. I was thinking that maybe with the shocks and springs I could lower down a bit the chair.
Any ideas?

[Burgerman]

I have a lot of spares bought this way. Some of it here.

All joysticks new. Some of the power modules used but as good as new.

But to use it you need a programmer. And thats around 300. I have one obvously to match my 3 R-Net chairs.

Wow, that’s really nice to know there are options on eBay to get the joysticks and control units.
There is 1 thing I don’t understand: you said that it is necessary a 300€ programmer, but I thought that a cable and software was enough.

All the stuff I buy is either new, (always new with joysticks) or as good as new and unmarked. Look and read carefully and watch the feedback and see sellers other items.
I FISH ebay for 30 mins 5 or 6 times a week. German, US, UK, Ireland, etc. I use miss spellings, bad descriptions (people call joysticks remote controls or power modules ECUs or Brains or worse), and they use the type of chair instead of brand of controller etc. So its very hard to find stuff. Thats good. It means that the errors they made mean others cant find this stuff either and so no bids. Make a daft offer. Sometimes its accepted. Make another offer when it ends without selling...
Make a LOT of low bid offers on GOOD or NEW stuff you want.
When they accept, ask if they can add a cable or anything you need as they cant be bothered to list these things. I have a BOX of bus cables, battery looms, multi connectors, even some actuator looms aquirred this way.

I got NEW:
£125, £125, £150 CJSM2 for three Advanced large screen metal colour Joysticks.
£80 CJSM(1) A LCD colour joystick.
£50 for an LED joystick no lights. With a free bus cable thrown in.
£40 for an LED joystick with lights.

As new or never fitted or used or taken from new chair stripped for parts:
£50 for 2 unused and unboxed attendant joysticks.
£45, £45, £50 for 3 120A power modules.
£45, for another 120A power module, complete with a 6 channel and lights ism6-L seating module and bus cables.
£40, £45, £45 for 3 Lighting and seating actuators ism6-L units.
£30 for a box of bus cables of every length and battery loom cables etc and 2 multi connector blocks.

Other stuff aquirred cheap is an IO unit, used Omni, and a load of small bits like joystick rubbers, connectors, knobs, etc.

£400 for a new OEM programmer!

So that ALL adds up to £1165
TOTAL £1565 inc the pogrammer enough electronics parts to build 4 full complete high end rehab powerchairs with all the best parts available with a few extras and spare joysticks etc. Or under £300 a chair!

But you MUST FISH well and be patient and have about a year to spare to get these prices/bargains...

Thats cheap! Even if including the programmer that I already would have bought to program my current 3 R-net chairs in use.

[faico_26]

I have a lot of spares bought this way. Some of it here.

All joysticks new. Some of the power modules used but as good as new.

But to use it you need a programmer. And thats around 300. I have one obvously to match my 3 R-Net chairs.

Wow, that’s really nice to know there are options on eBay to get the joysticks and control units.
There is 1 thing I don’t understand: you said that it is necessary a 300€ programmer, but I thought that a cable and software was enough.

All the stuff I buy is either new, (always new with joysticks) or as good as new and unmarked. Look and read carefully and watch the feedback and see sellers other items.
I FISH ebay for 30 mins 5 or 6 times a week. German, US, UK, Ireland, etc. I use miss spellings, bad descriptions (people call joysticks remote controls or power modules ECUs or Brains or worse), and they use the type of chair instead of brand of controller etc. So its very hard to find stuff. Thats good. It means that the errors they made mean others cant find this stuff either and so no bids. Make a daft offer. Sometimes its accepted. Make another offer when it ends without selling...
Make a LOT of low bid offers on GOOD or NEW stuff you want.
When they accept, ask if they can add a cable or anything you need as they cant be bothered to list these things. I have a BOX of bus cables, battery looms, multi connectors, even some actuator looms aquirred this way.

I got NEW:
£125, £125, £150 CJSM2 for three Advanced large screen metal colour Joysticks.
£80 CJSM(1) A LCD colour joystick.
£50 for an LED joystick no lights. With a free bus cable thrown in.
£40 for an LED joystick with lights.

As new or never fitted or used or taken from new chair stripped for parts:
£50 for 2 unused and unboxed attendant joysticks.
£45, £45, £50 for 3 120A power modules.
£45, for another 120A power module, complete with a 6 channel and lights ism6-L seating module and bus cables.
£40, £45, £45 for 3 Lighting and seating actuators ism6-L units.
£30 for a box of bus cables of every length and battery loom cables etc and 2 multi connector blocks.

Other stuff aquirred cheap is an IO unit, used Omni, and a load of small bits like joystick rubbers, connectors, knobs, etc.

£400 for a new OEM programmer!

So that ALL adds up to £1165
TOTAL £1565 inc the pogrammer enough electronics parts to build 4 full complete high end rehab powerchairs with all the best parts available with a few extras and spare joysticks etc. Or under £300 a chair!

But you MUST FISH well and be patient and have about a year to spare to get these prices/bargains...

Thats cheap! Even if including the programmer that I already would have bought to program my current 3 R-net chairs in use.

It’s really good to know I have options. Because maybe in a near future I’ll change to 120A to be able to handle curbs.

[Burgerman]

You will need lithium or grp24 batts as those will be the next inadequate part of the chain. They may already be limiting torque. If high impedance. Drive to a curb, and do 2 things to find out.

Measure MOTOR current.
Measure BATTERY volts.

If motor current when stalled against a curb is under 90A then the power module isnt delivering the max power.
That can be for several reasons.
1. Battery voltage drops low enough that the power module reduces current to protect the battery automatically. So what IS the batt voltage at its lowest as you ry to climb a curb?
2. Can be because compensation isnt set high enough. So inadequate pulsewidth (volts/current) gets sent to the motor.
3. Can be because max motor boost time is set to 1 second. Thats not enough. Your 90A module is really an 80A unit. It allows an extra 10A at default setting for just 1 second. Set to say 4 if it isnt. That allows time for the compensation to ramp up to a high enough level before the power module tries to save itself from the smoke escaping!
4. Can be high impedance motors. Not usually the case on 4 pole motors.
Can be a combinaion of these things. A clamp Ammeter, a digital voltmeter. A programmer will allow you to find out.

[faico_26]

You will need lithium or grp24 batts as those will be the next inadequate part of the chain. They may already be limiting torque. If high impedance. Drive to a curb, and do 2 things to find out.

Measure MOTOR current.
Measure BATTERY volts.

If motor current when stalled against a curb is under 90A then the power module isnt delivering the max power.
That can be for several reasons.
1. Battery voltage drops low enough that the power module reduces current to protect the battery automatically. So what IS the batt voltage at its lowest as you ry to climb a curb?
2. Can be because compensation isnt set high enough. So inadequate pulsewidth (volts/current) gets sent to the motor.
3. Can be because max motor boost time is set to 1 second. Thats not enough. Your 90A module is really an 80A unit. It allows an extra 10A at default setting for just 1 second. Set to say 4 if it isnt. That allows time for the compensation to ramp up to a high enough level before the power module tries to save itself from the smoke escaping!
4. Can be high impedance motors. Not usually the case on 4 pole motors.
Can be a combinaion of these things. A clamp Ammeter, a digital voltmeter. A programmer will allow you to find out.

Excellent explanation, I will check everything!
Another thing that don’t like is (maybe it’s a stupid thing) is that when the electro brake works and then stops and then I move again the stick on the joystick it takes about 1 second for the electro brake to release and let the chair move. In my old Invacare Mirage is almost instantaneous. Is that programmable to avoid that delay?

[Burgerman]

It cant take a full second. In 1 second after hitting go, I am at 3mph and the front wheels are still airborn.

Unless you have minimum forward acceleration set way too low. As soon as the chair sees any current to the motors it releases. It can take various different times to actually reapply them.

You were complaining of slowing when turning at speed?
Well someone was on this chair!

Try this:

Demand Clipping R-net

Demand clipping is necessary to ensure good speed and direction control of the wheelchair in all circumstances, including heavy loads and low battery conditions.

Off If set to Off it uses the standard VR2 algorithm.

On If set to  On it uses the R-net version of the demand clipping algorithm.

In some wheelchair application setting the parameter On can allow allows higher speeds to be maintained when making regular course adjustments.

[faico_26]

It cant take a full second. In 1 second after hitting go, I am at 3mph and the front wheels are still airborn.

Unless you have minimum forward acceleration set way too low. As soon as the chair sees any current to the motors it releases. It can take various different times to actually reapply them.

You were complaining of slowing when turning at speed?
Well someone was on this chair!

Try this:

Demand Clipping R-net

Demand clipping is necessary to ensure good speed and direction control of the wheelchair in all circumstances, including heavy loads and low battery conditions.

Off If set to Off it uses the standard VR2 algorithm.

On If set to  On it uses the R-net version of the demand clipping algorithm.

In some wheelchair application setting the parameter On can allow allows higher speeds to be maintained when making regular course adjustments.

I'm very sensitive to things like the small delay when the brakes connect and then desconnect when moving the joystick. I will make a short video to show what I mean.
"Demand clipping" is a parameter than can be set up with programming, isn't it?
Regarding lowering the seat height, have you ever tried this your chairs? I'm thinking that maybe I modify the suspension.

[Burgerman]

R-net, pilot plus, VR2, all basicaly the same feel and speeds.

Old vid... Rear drive.
Odyssey Batts.
80A controller but programmed to go!

I like my chairs to go EXACTLY where I tell it, when I tell it. Not to mush about for a bit while it figures out where it will finally end up pointing.

It takes 80A at each motor and 160A at the battery every time I gun it from stationary.

Nothing here takes 1 second to go!
And all my chairs feel exacty the same.
And it wont go without releasing the brake first...

I would say it moves almost instantly, before I get to "full" stick, no matter how fast I hit it.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

Most people would not like these settings.
too much compensation.
too much turn speed
too much min turn speed
too much forward acceleration.
But you DO want the turn acc, turn dec, min turn acc, min turn dec set to 100! So it steers properly.

[faico_26]

R-net, pilot plus, VR2, all basicaly the same feel and speeds.

Old vid... Rear drive.
Odyssey Batts.
80A controller but programmed to go!

I like my chairs to go EXACTLY where I tell it, when I tell it. Not to mush about for a bit while it figures out where it will finally end up pointing.

It takes 80A at each motor and 160A at the battery every time I gun it from stationary.

Nothing here takes 1 second to go!
And all my chairs feel exacty the same.
And it wont go without releasing the brake first...

I would say it moves almost instantly, before I get to "full" stick, no matter how fast I hit it.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

Most people would not like these settings.
too much compensation.
too much turn speed
too much min turn speed
too much forward acceleration.
But you DO want the turn acc, turn dec, min turn acc, min turn dec set to 100! So it steers properly.

The video is amazing, so powerful but with total control.
I will post a short video of what I mean about the electrobrake being slow to release.

[JohnnyUK]

Same here with a new Q300R with seat lift. Seat height is about 46cms approx. The seat lasts 24 secs to reach the 30cms, rather slow.

@faico - That's very slow compared with mine, 40% longer on those figures so I'm not happy about that. Limits it's useability as I couldn't be bothered to wait that long especially if I have to stop the chair to elevate and drop it again afterwards. May I ask what you weigh? I'm a skinny 55kg's so maybe that's one of the reasons the Stretto's are faster. Is your Q300R lift actuator noisy?

The Q300R I've ordered states minimum seat height possible is 490mm to seat pan, that's with powered lift/tilt/recline. I can't see why yours is 30mm lower can you check your seat height please as it says "approx"? What wheel/tyres did you get?

[faico_26]

Same here with a new Q300R with seat lift. Seat height is about 46cms approx. The seat lasts 24 secs to reach the 30cms, rather slow.

@faico - That's very slow compared with mine, 40% longer on those figures so I'm not happy about that. Limits it's useability as I couldn't be bothered to wait that long especially if I have to stop the chair to elevate and drop it again afterwards. May I ask what you weigh? I'm a skinny 55kg's so maybe that's one of the reasons the Stretto's are faster. Is your Q300R lift actuator noisy?

The Q300R I've ordered states minimum seat height possible is 490mm to seat pan, that's with powered lift/tilt/recline. I can't see why yours is 30mm lower can you check your seat height please as it says "approx"? What wheel/tyres did you get?

I’m 60kgs.
I have been obsessed with seat height before buying this chair, looking for other models like the Invacare Aviva and others. Regarding the Q300R with seat lift the order form indicates 2 possible seat height: 47cms or 49cms. The shop was not able to find how Sunrise puts one or the other seat height. But the instructions manual indicates 47cms (position 1) or 49cms (position 2). I’m using 12” tires rear and 8” front, that made 46cms, I will measure that exactly and I will let you know.
A VERY IMPORTANT thing regarding seat height in Q300R is something I just found out: the shop let test a demo Q300R that they had. I tested it and we made pictures and videos. When checking the pictures I found out that on the demo chair there was a metal bar (2 cms) between the lifter and the seat base making the chair 2cms higher. Also I found out that there are 2 hole positions in the part where there are the screws that you will unlock to be able to lift the whole chair to access the batteries. I saw a Q300R with the screws in the upper holes and so the chair was higher. Mine is in the lowest position. I cannot see a way to lower more my chair seat, it is almost touching the plastic that covers the batteries.
I have to check everything to see if there is some way to lower the seat a little bit.
I you have questions I’m happy to exchange ideas!

[faico_26]

Same here with a new Q300R with seat lift. Seat height is about 46cms approx. The seat lasts 24 secs to reach the 30cms, rather slow.

@faico - That's very slow compared with mine, 40% longer on those figures so I'm not happy about that. Limits it's useability as I couldn't be bothered to wait that long especially if I have to stop the chair to elevate and drop it again afterwards. May I ask what you weigh? I'm a skinny 55kg's so maybe that's one of the reasons the Stretto's are faster. Is your Q300R lift actuator noisy?

The Q300R I've ordered states minimum seat height possible is 490mm to seat pan, that's with powered lift/tilt/recline. I can't see why yours is 30mm lower can you check your seat height please as it says "approx"? What wheel/tyres did you get?

I was wrong with 24 seconds. It is actually 30 seconds with me (60kgs) on the chair.

[faico_26]

Same here with a new Q300R with seat lift. Seat height is about 46cms approx. The seat lasts 24 secs to reach the 30cms, rather slow.

@faico - That's very slow compared with mine, 40% longer on those figures so I'm not happy about that. Limits it's useability as I couldn't be bothered to wait that long especially if I have to stop the chair to elevate and drop it again afterwards. May I ask what you weigh? I'm a skinny 55kg's so maybe that's one of the reasons the Stretto's are faster. Is your Q300R lift actuator noisy?

The Q300R I've ordered states minimum seat height possible is 490mm to seat pan, that's with powered lift/tilt/recline. I can't see why yours is 30mm lower can you check your seat height please as it says "approx"? What wheel/tyres did you get?

I was wrong with 24 seconds. It is actually 30 seconds with me (60kgs) on the chair.

I don’t find the lift actuator noisy and I’m very sensitive to these things.

[JohnnyUK]

I was wrong with 24 seconds. It is actually 30 seconds with me (60kgs) on the chair.

Oh dear!! You're very similar weight too. Maybe would have left lift/tilt off the spec if I'd realised, the seat would be lower too.

WCS have just placed an order with Sunrise so expect it'll be 6-8 weeks before it arrives. At that point I'll have a look at it and decide if it's worth messing about with. Lots of dubious design engineering with that Q300, I've upped the spec in an attempt to make it bearable but my hopes aren't high. A certain gentleman described it as a Trebant with M5 upgrades at this point it's a good analogy I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised when I get it but that seems less likely the more I learn.

Do you like your Q300R?

[Burgerman]

I'm very sensitive to things like the small delay when the brakes connect and then desconnect when moving the joystick. I will make a short video to show what I mean.
"Demand clipping" is a parameter than can be set up with programming, isn't it?
Regarding lowering the seat height, have you ever tried this your chairs? I'm thinking that maybe I modify the suspension.

Yes programming.
Lowering seat? No my feet would be too low. If a table isnt high enough the problem isnt me (ever! ) its the table! I never sit at tables. Bars, yes. And thats one place your lift help! Eventually.

[Raro]

JohnnyUK, do you use 14" wheels? That's where the biggest difference in height can be. The seat height of the chairs is very neglected, especially for people who need to rest their arms on a table. With the Q300R, you get a width of only 58 centimeters, but 49 from seat to floor is ridiculous. You still have to add the cushion!

[JohnnyUK]

Yes I've opted for the 14" wheels as I didn't want the skinny tyres so that may account for the height difference. I changed the cushion to a Sedeo Pro that's only 70mm thick to minimise the overall height, I've got 90mm Sedeo Pro cushions on my Quantum chairs so that gets me 20mm back on the Q300. The narrow width is one of the few advantages for me with the Q300 however my Stretto's are only 570mm wide so even narrower.

Incidentally WCS/Sunrise UK told me the biggest batteries available on the Q300R are 55Ah MK Gel and that was supposed to be a £120 upcharge over the standard 50Ah Gel's, luckily they forgot to charge me. Makes a small difference but not enough to stop the batteries limiting performance. They also informed me it's IMPOSSIBLE to for the 120A Power Module so I'm stuck with the inadequate 90A (80+10) version

[Burgerman]

Impossible! My

They mean they wont do it making it impossible for you.

[JohnnyUK]

Indeed

Neither WCS or Sunrise could/would offer an explanation as to why this would be. You've persuaded me it's absolutely not an issue as far as R-Net is concerned so it can only be physical size that prevents it. However you said the 120A PM isn't any bigger than the 90A so it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. My only other option would be to buy a 120A off eBay and change it over, that would probably be cheaper than paying their upcharge if 120A was an option on Q300R

[faico_26]

Indeed

Neither WCS or Sunrise could/would offer an explanation as to why this would be. You've persuaded me it's absolutely not an issue as far as R-Net is concerned so it can only be physical size that prevents it. However you said the 120A PM isn't any bigger than the 90A so it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. My only other option would be to buy a 120A off eBay and change it over, that would probably be cheaper than paying their upcharge if 120A was an option on Q300R

I’m thinking the same. But first I want to try to increase motor load compensation to see if the chair can handle curbs and also I have to check boost.

[faico_26]

JohnnyUK, do you use 14" wheels? That's where the biggest difference in height can be. The seat height of the chairs is very neglected, especially for people who need to rest their arms on a table. With the Q300R, you get a width of only 58 centimeters, but 49 from seat to floor is ridiculous. You still have to add the cushion!

From 12,5” to 14” tires there is 0,5 cms in height difference. If you want to have 46cms you need to be sure the chair is set to 47cms not to 49cms. And I am looking to see if modifying the suspension I can gain some less seat height.

[faico_26]

I was wrong with 24 seconds. It is actually 30 seconds with me (60kgs) on the chair.

Oh dear!! You're very similar weight too. Maybe would have left lift/tilt off the spec if I'd realised, the seat would be lower too.

WCS have just placed an order with Sunrise so expect it'll be 6-8 weeks before it arrives. At that point I'll have a look at it and decide if it's worth messing about with. Lots of dubious design engineering with that Q300, I've upped the spec in an attempt to make it bearable but my hopes aren't high. A certain gentleman described it as a Trebant with M5 upgrades at this point it's a good analogy I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised when I get it but that seems less likely the more I learn.

Do you like your Q300R?

During the first days I hated the chair but it is because I have been using Invacare Mirage for the last 20 years. So everything I compared it with the Mirage. But I am starting to get used to the Q300R. It is very good indoors, I thought I had problems at home, but it is very easy to drive it in my flat, it is smaller than it looked. The flip back armrest are really nice and easy for transfers. I use the plastic side guard to keep my legs and body in place, the side guard is super light. Also I like the legrest, sedeo lite, aluminium very light.
I’m in the process of improving programming, it is still not as smooth as I would like. Motors 4 poles are noisy mainly when it speeds up. Curbs terrible, not even a 4cms can be handled. I have to check if some programming can improve this. Nice ground clearance but motors or power unit 90A can handle small curbs.

[faico_26]

I was wrong with 24 seconds. It is actually 30 seconds with me (60kgs) on the chair.

Oh dear!! You're very similar weight too. Maybe would have left lift/tilt off the spec if I'd realised, the seat would be lower too.

WCS have just placed an order with Sunrise so expect it'll be 6-8 weeks before it arrives. At that point I'll have a look at it and decide if it's worth messing about with. Lots of dubious design engineering with that Q300, I've upped the spec in an attempt to make it bearable but my hopes aren't high. A certain gentleman described it as a Trebant with M5 upgrades at this point it's a good analogy I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised when I get it but that seems less likely the more I learn.

Do you like your Q300R?

During the first days I hated the chair but it is because I have been using Invacare Mirage for the last 20 years. So everything I compared it with the Mirage. But I am starting to get used to the Q300R. It is very good indoors, I thought I had problems at home, but it is very easy to drive it in my flat, it is smaller than it looked. The flip back armrest are really nice and easy for transfers. I use the plastic side guard to keep my legs and body in place, the side guard is super light. Also I like the legrest, sedeo lite, aluminium very light.
I’m in the process of improving programming, it is still not as smooth as I would like. Motors 4 poles are noisy mainly when it speeds up. Curbs terrible, not even a 4cms can be handled. I have to check if some programming can improve this. Nice ground clearance but motors or power unit 90A can handle small curbs.

Driving with the seat raised is nice, nice feeling, very safe.
Tilt is nice too.
Seat lift is slow though, I have to get used to it.
Due to high seat position, it is not easy to get close to tables and the armrests and joystick touch the table too. I have the armrests in very low position, not very comfortable, but it is the only way to get close to my desk.