J. peterson, on IQ

[Burgerman]

youtu.be/BtRE9HpVja8

[martin007]

Society is becoming dumber.
It's no secret.

My theory is that a lack of effort makes people dull.

[Burgerman]

IQ is extremely heritable.

Also IQ isnt knowledge. Its basically how fast your brain can solve problems that are hard to do. But dont require knowledge. So visualising a complex shape looking at it from the other side. Or reversing a string of 1 to 10 digits in your head. Some can do this stuff, mental agility. Some can do it slower. Some cant at all. But the answer is in the question. You dont need knowledge. Just mental capability.

So you cannot increase IQ by learning, training, or a lifetime of fancy universities***. Its pretty unfair, you either were born with a hot braincell that can think, or you were not. No amount of education can change that. Identical twins brought up in completely different cultures, countries, etc allways tend to score pretty much the same. Education is a completely diferent thing to IQ. But you NEED a high IQ as well to do advanced education. So the two really end up had in hand.
You can have an intelligent or low intelligence road sweeper. You cant have a low intelligence physics professor.

***You CAN temporarily get a small boost of a few IQ points by practicing these TYPES of questions for a few days intensively. But it doesent last.

Because of this most people find that its fine to tell people that you have a degree in XYZ subject or a PHD in 123, but if you tell them you have a high IQ they hate it. The problem here is that your IQ is the single most accurate predictor of so many things! Success in work, family, marriege, wealth, qualifications or job capabiliy, even health and lifespan. And theres a simply massive difference in IQ levels between a typical large group of people. And across various parts of the world, race etc. A lower IQ is the opposite. A great predictor of crime, short lifespans, drugs, prison, low income, out of work, many kids, many partners, everything that we dont want as a society. Low acomplishments in practically everything other than physical activities. Whats the solution? There isnt one other than Eugenics, but thats highly unpopular. Hell even mentioning that people or races with lower IQs causes heated argumants and calls of racist. So you cant even discuss it.

However IQ is only "more important" to the modern world. If you live in a place where there are lions, and other things that want to eat you, or that you need to catch food with a spear then IQ is arguably less important than the ability to run. Which is why we see many african runners, marathon winners, boxers, etc. We value IQ because of our type of society where its needed to earn a living.

[martin007]

People with a high IQ have fewer children.
Does the video offer any other explanation?

[Burgerman]

Because they can think. High IQ = High level of logic.

I am quite bright. I choose NOT to have children. For many good reasons. Stupid people breed like rabbits and work out why they spent a life paying, and trapped... My opinion!

[martin007]

But then why (supposedly) has IQ been declining since 1950?

[Burgerman]

It has been declining where?
It has been increasing marginally for decades, though to be diet, etc. The flyn effect.

Its been decreasing in some countries with lots of immigration because some/most of that is coming from africa. It lowers the average. But now we are in the area where you are not allowed to say things like this in spite of it being fact. Because anyone daring to do so must be "racist"...

In our parliment 2 years ago the university heads were asked if they were constitutionally racist as the number of black people leaving or even finishing the courses was lower than average. Quite the opposite had in fact been happening. They were allowing black people in in spite of being less qualified to start the courses because they were afraid of being called racist... This went of for several hours I watched it live. They mentioned tens of excuses and reasons. Everything from single parent families, poverty, nutrition, and 101 other enviromental reasons why this might be the case. It got very heated. Nobody dare mention the fact that many parts of africa are around 30 full points lower in IQ and so the result was exactly what we see. You cannot talk about the real problem because everyone is "equal" and black/white etc all identical. The chinese consistently top the scores, and they put that down to parents making them work harder etc. But the chinese have around 8 point hgher average IQ than europeans. So thats exactly what you would expect. This stuff is all well researched, known facts. But willfully ignored.

But then why (supposedly) has IQ been declining since 1950?

And immigrants tend to be muslim. And african or middle east. Now consider that they typically have 5 to 10 kids. Becaue a) the less intelligent the more children generally and b) the muslim ad other religions encourage as many ofspring as possible. And often dont allow contraception - even catholics. Becayse the aim of ach religion is to outgrow the others. And so the populations lowest IQ are breeding like rabbits. What do you think that does to the overall IQ?

Its also important to understand that there are high IQ muslims/blacks. And low IQ chinese. The difference is that you might 1 rocket scientists per 1000 in a black africal population and 10 in the west or 15 if you happen to be chinese. The real problem is that lower end.
Remember that if the average IQ is only 85, then the AVERAGE african has the IQ of someone that may end up as a laborour or McDonalds worker or whatever.
And those one deviation lower are not capable of functioning in the modern world without help. And theres a lot of them.

[martin007]

I understand.

[Burgerman]

Can you see what lots of african immigration, that breed 3 times faster than the european average, is going to do to any countries economy?

Its a real problem.

[martin007]

I don't have to imagine it; I'm watching it.
Everything is working worse.
The saddest thing is that it can't be said in public.

[Burgerman]

It is what it is. Its nobodys fault. Just nature. Non of this means you cant have a black nuclear physisist. It only changes the number of them per population head.

At the opposite end of the scale you will always find that the imigrants we get from africa and muslims generally will claim more in benefits than they ever earn. We recently had all those figures here in the UK to cries of "racism"... You cant talk about it.

[martin007]

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

[Burgerman]

Watch


youtu.be/2RQgpgHVPOM



youtu.be/M76xjVifGPg



youtu.be/LA-zbbgHcL8

[slomobile]

I don't know if this is IQ, but there is more to thinking good than speed. Anyone that can count really fast has speed. But that alone is of limited use. And Knowledge is not the only other variable. There are savants that think very fast, and have deep clear knowledge about very narrow subjects, ready to recall very quickly. You've seen the people who, given a date can tell you immediately the day of the week, the weather, headlines, any significant events in their lives. A living catalog. But it isn't very interesting having a conversation with a catalog. Interesting thoughts come from breadth. How many different things can you think of simultaneously? Not serially, that would be speed again. I tried to train this when I was young by watching TV science programs and listening to radio news while exercising. Seemed to help. Then there is mental endurance. How long can you maintain attention on a single topic? Working your way down to the deepest depth of your knowledge while maintaining subject width at speed. What property falls away first for you?

I've had at least 2 Stanford-Binet IQ tests administered by different neuropsychologists over a decade apart, both after my 20ft fall w/orbit fracture. One timed everything, and the other only timed some tests because I clearly had slow recall, but it would eventually come to me. Not all the tests had speed as a primary factor, taking my time just cost me a few points compared to those able to do it faster. But I was able to complete harder tests worth more points because I was willing to endure while the faster people gave up quickly. The tests were 1 point apart on the overall score and very close on the subscores. Only to say that while speed is a factor in IQ, it is not the only factor.

Perhaps IQ is going down because the average width is going up. Every human has more different things they need to hold in their head at the same time. Its like a computer that increases bus width at the cost of processor speed.

[Burgerman]

Well one theory is that less (inadequate) iodine is present in the diets of those living further from the sea and in modern diets.

In many countries 0.1% is added to salt. Called iodated salt. Not in much of africa, (and not in the UK for e.g)...
To prevent what causes a 15 to 20 point IQ drop. And something described as cretinism back in the day. Especially relevant to babies/pregnant mothers.

But all of those different "types" of thinking you talk about are in fact measured by IQ testing. The broad thing, requires a high IQ to do it. For e,g. And anyone can score higher given more time to complete some types of IQ questions. And knowledge isn't a part of IQ measurement. But there's a massive correlation anyway. Those with a high IQ tend to be better able to learn, and want to learn and so retain more information anyway. I live to learn!

But there's more to it than this anyway. Seems that a high IQ even determines how likely you are to live a long time, stay married, be successful.
In Scotland a large group of schoolchildren took the UK test "exam" which was actually a type of IQ test by law when 11 years old. It determined at 11 years old who went to the "better" grammar schools. And who went to normal comprehensive schools.

A bunch of researchers and scientists tracked a sample of those that passed and failed over their lifetimes. Every 10 years. When they reached around 91+ years of age, the results showed that those that had passed, (the top 15% in the 11 plus test), were pretty much all still alive and reasonably healthy. And were living in good conditions, financially comfortable, mostly still married or widowed. The opposite was true with the most of the 85% that did not pass. The lowest scores had the shortest lives, the worst outcomes, shorter marriages, ended up living in rented housing or paid for by the state, higher likelihood of crime and ill health. Seems that if your brain is wired well, the rest of you probably is too.

[Burgerman]

I don't know if this is IQ, but there is more to thinking good than speed.

I think both go together. To be able to think "good" requires a decent intelligence level.

Anyone that can count really fast has speed. But that alone is of limited use. And Knowledge is not the only other variable.

Neither of those have anything to do with IQ in any way though. IQ is a measure of your mental agility such as imagining what some complex shape looks like from the opposite side upside down. And so being able to choose it from a list. Or reversing a phone number in your head. Or recognising reversed or transposed shapes and patterns.

There are savants that think very fast, and have deep clear knowledge about very narrow subjects, ready to recall very quickly.

All the KNOWLEDGE in the world is not a part of IQ and isnt measured in IQ tests.

You've seen the people who, given a date can tell you immediately the day of the week, the weather, headlines, any significant events in their lives. A living catalog. But it isn't very interesting having a conversation with a catalog. Interesting thoughts come from breadth.

Correct. But you can learn 1000 digits of Pi with an IQ of 70... And that's not what IQ measures. Its not helpful to have a list of memorised learned things in any IQ test. You are confusing IQ with knowledge. Catalog of knowledge in a narrow field in this case. This is how I see the likes of teachers and people with degrees and PHDs etc. It doesn't map to intelligence. Although you may need a certain level of intelligence to do it. In many cases working twice as hard, PUTTING IN THE WORK, gets you there too. That's not IQ. It can correlate with IQ though (sometimes).

How many different things can you think of simultaneously? Not serially, that would be speed again. I tried to train this when I was young by watching TV science programs and listening to radio news while exercising. Seemed to help. Then there is mental endurance. How long can you maintain attention on a single topic? Working your way down to the deepest depth of your knowledge while maintaining subject width at speed. What property falls away first for you?

Not sure how its possible to concentrate on a single thing. Everything requires many streams at once. I can maintain many streams at a time and do quite a lot. And very long periods. It depends on the subjects. But I don't know what I am comparing to. So not sure how this tells us anything useful. It would help in a 2 hour IQ test. And life abilities. So likely the same thing.

I've had at least 2 Stanford-Binet IQ tests administered by different neuropsychologists over a decade apart, both after my 20ft fall w/orbit fracture. One timed everything, and the other only timed some tests because I clearly had slow recall,

I have also done these tests. Mensa administrated in very controlled conditions in huge halls with lots of control. And many other tests too for fun. ALL are strictly timed to the second or the results are invalid. So your neuro guy was testing for something but the IQ result or rather the percentile test result doesent test IQ without the clock. Because any person, even one that's got a real 60 IQ level can always answer every question correctly given the time. And score crazy high but in-admisible IQ.

but it would eventually come to me. Not all the tests had speed as a primary factor, taking my time just cost me a few points compared to those able to do it faster. But I was able to complete harder tests worth more points because I was willing to endure while the faster people gave up quickly. The tests were 1 point apart on the overall score and very close on the subscores. Only to say that while speed is a factor in IQ, it is not the only factor.

It certainly is if that IQ score is valid.
EVERYONE looks at a question and cant instantly see the answer. And given enough time it will come to them. There's no question in an IQ test that you cant do given adequate time. But they don't work like that.
I scored very well and Mensa invited me to join with a 99.xx percentile score. You only need 98. Anywhere in the top 2% of the population.
I only answered maybe 3/4 of the questions.
2 separate tests. Similar score on each.
Test 1 was the usual multiple choice. Test 2 was all patterns and shapes and so was a "culture free" one. You didn't need language. Other than to know you had to tick the winner!

Heres how that works. Unknown to you, the HARDER questions score more.
So is it better to fly though all the easy questions first then go back to the hard ones later?
Or to do the slower harder ones and leave half the sheet empty?
Or tick a random box on every question you cant answer easily?
Or spend a few mins then give up and go to the next one?
Some combination of this?

The answer is that it really doesn't make ANY difference. The tests are designed and calculated and tested every which way to be sure of that. The hardest quetions score the highest marks. Developed over countless test results.

Perhaps IQ is going down because the average width is going up. Every human has more different things they need to hold in their head at the same time. Its like a computer that increases bus width at the cost of processor speed.

That width IS IQ. You will score higher. The better you are at that, the better you will score. Many questions require you to hold verious things in memory at once. To compute shapes and numbers at one time. Designed to test exactly this.

[slomobile]

Its basically how fast your brain can solve problems that are hard to do.

[Burgerman]

Yes. And the ability to have many things held in your head at once such as strings of numbers as you reverse them, images from alternate perspectives etc while solving whatever problem is asked, makes you faster. And so score higher. Because you can answer more questions in a given time.

With enough time EVERYONE can answer every question correctly regardless of IQ as long as its adequate to function!
Because knowledge isnt requred. The answers to IQ questions are directly in front of you. How long it takes to each person to "click" is the only variable.

[Burgerman]

You do not want large communities of these countries as immigrants taking over!

Does intelligence shape the success of a country, or is it the other way around? The question of intelligence, often measured by IQ, has long intrigued both scientists and policymakers.

While IQ is just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to a person’s or a society’s development, it can still reflect certain patterns within countries.

Across the globe, intelligence is frequently assessed through IQ (intelligence quotient) tests, which aim to measure a range of cognitive abilities including problem-solving, logic, and comprehension. While it can be a controversial measure of intelligence, it remains a popular measure.


The average IQ is set at 100 on IQ tests, with higher or lower scores indicating higher or lower cognitive ability, respectively. 1 full deviation is 15 points.

A country’s average IQ does not conclusively determine its citizens’ potential or capabilities. Therefore, it is crucial to understand that a high average IQ in a country does not necessarily indicate the intelligence of all its citizens.

Countries that consistently score high in cognitive ability have successfully developed robust educational systems, prioritized research and development, and implemented efficient policies. As a result, their populations have exhibited high average IQs over time.

CEOWORLD magazine published a research study revealing that almost two-thirds of people worldwide believe they are smarter than the average person. According to research, Japan has the highest average IQ, 106.48.

Results from 2024 2025 testing:
In Africa, Liberia has an average IQ of 45.07, placing it at 198th in global rankings. Sierra Leone follows closely with the same average IQ of 45.07, ranking 197th. Cape Verde, with an average IQ of 52.5, is ranked 195th.