PINNED - AGM & GEL battery info lead battery info

[Burgerman]

You worry way too much!

If you soldered, and everything snapped together correctly, and the chair wend 12 miles it will be fine!

[expresso]

it did snap together and i did go 12 miles - and i do worry

being that Genomatic's failed - just made me think - if i should have doubled checked it before installing - the girl helping me was her first time doing this with me -

i did charge also after at 35A - lasted about a hour on the charger - if anything was wrong - it would have went bad then - i would think ?

[expresso]

my mistake - its not charging from the SB50 connector -

just connected to the Chair main power - if using the chair didnt give me issues for 12 miles - it should be ok then i would think

[Burgerman]

the girl helping me was her first time doing this with me

They all say that...

[expresso]

[steves1977uk]

the girl helping me was her first time doing this with me -

Better get teaching and experimenting with her then until it's a tight fit

Steve

[Gnomatic]

OK, I know what I did wrong. I had inserted the leads into the Anderson shells upside down, which caused the bad contact. I had never used Andersons before, rookie mistake.

Now, when the Andersons are plugged into each other, they are really connected. Takes a bit of force to pull them apart. Feels much more solid this way.

[expresso]

OK, I know what I did wrong. I had inserted the leads into the Anderson shells upside down, which caused the bad contact. I had never used Andersons before, rookie mistake.

Now, when the Andersons are plugged into each other, they are really connected. Takes a bit of force to pull them apart. Feels much more solid this way.

oh i see - so the Neg. side it was correct and it clipped on the end and the Pos. side - it was unside down and it never really clipped in place ?

at least now you know what happened and what went wrong - good thing everything is OK - Chair charger etc, -

[Gnomatic]

I had both pos and neg leads inserted upside down in both andersons

[Burgerman]

That would do it!

[expresso]

I had both pos and neg leads inserted upside down in both andersons

how long did it last before it burned up ? i mean was that the first time you used the cable or did you use a few times before it happened

just curious how long it worked seeming fine till it gave out

when pushing them in - you should hear two clicks before its done - you feel one click and then keep pushing till you get another click - then look at it to make sure -

[Gnomatic]

I had used it a few times w/o issue before the meltdown.

[LROBBINS]

I'm a bit surprised that one or more pins didn't slip right out of the housing if inserted upside down. That flat spring has to click behind a "step" in the pin to lock it in place. Maybe the thickness of your heat shrink was keeping them from falling out.

[Burgerman]

I am surprised they would go in upside down or fit together afterwards.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jDY1kAgUFY

And

[Gnomatic]

They fit together, but they didn't 'snap in' together, and were very easy to pull apart. They didn't lock, I was thinking cord gravity might be enough to pull apart. That was my first clue when I started rethinking the process. Yes. I'm a rookie at this.

[Gnomatic]

Here's the graph from my working Schauer charger.

[Gnomatic]

Not much of a CV stage one that one either.

[Burgerman]

That one leaves the battery at about 85 percent charged! Stops charging at CV!

Gradually you are learning why I use the PL8 or a marine charger, or a power supply for a few hours till amps fall to a fraction of an amp.

Every charger you test is crap! They all do something different to what they claim.

[Gnomatic]

You know, in doing this exorcise of having the PL8 monitor and graph all my mobility chargers, the thing I'm really finding most surprising is how long it takes to charge the batteries with these. Every charger so far has had the green light on saying ready to go in 4-6hrs. But the reality they arre still charging away(or trying to), they're not close to finished. The lights really are meaningless. Its like its worse than even what you've articulated!

[Burgerman]

I have known this for 20 years.

Half the problem is the thin charger cables, and crappy high resistance xlr plug, and thin pod to power module wiring. It means that at 8A the charger may be at 14.4V CV, while the battery is only at about 13.9v... As it gets more charged the current falls so the volts climb. Its a mess. You need heavy short cables, and Anderson connectors, and use a proper charger! But nobody listens or cares.

Then the next question is why is my battery range bad after 6 months?

[expresso]

just curious here - since i dont know much - how do you monitor it with the PL 8 - ? i mean - do you plug in your dumb charger in the chair and start a charge - and have the PL 8 plugged on the same chair also and just monitor ?

then it shows a graph of whats going on ?

[Burgerman]

Yep!

Choose the right preset. Your lead ones. Drive the chair till it needs charging first. Choose monitor, And tell your PC not to sleep. Then plug in the chairs charger and go to bed. Prepare to be underwhelmed...

It only logs volts though. No amps obviously. So ignore the red line below...

You should see like below IF THE CHARGER IS ANY GOOD.
Either stage 1 and 2, with a long stage 2 of around 6 to 8 hours at fixed voltage. And off.
Or
Stage 1, 2 and 3. With a shorter stage 2 of about 4 hours minimum. And float indefinitely.

[expresso]

interesting - didnt know thats how it worked - i dont even use a Lead chair now - not even worth the time and effort - it would be just because i am curious who knows - i may try it one day on my indoor chair - thats the only lead chair i have and it never leaves the house now - gets charged each day with the lester big heavy charger and thats it -

i dont have a anderson connector on that chair to even connect the pl 8 to it - - not worth the effort involved to add one either - maybe one day if and when i change those batteries out - i can make a cable SB50 and add it then - just to give me options to charge -

so you pick a lead preset and hit monitor - while the chair is charging with the dumb charger in the joystick - like normally - and the PL 8 on the SB50 end - not bad - its a good way to show others whats really going on - - the thing is - they dont care anyway -

[Burgerman]

Neither do the manufacturers, and most of the charger manufacturers, and the battery manufacturers just sell more...

Basically nobody cares. However, if you DO care, and DO understand this stuff it drives you mental!

You can find this out just by using a volt meter and watching it every 30 mins or so to see what's really happening. Or my own fancy multimeter draws me a fancy graph over time so I can just make it do that 'monitor' thing for me... But I have known about this since the first month I had a powerchair in 97 because I couldn't believe it said charged after about 6 hours! Because that's not possible! So I measured it... And then half a dozen different chargers. And discovered that the wiring wasn't adequate, and the chargers all do something different... Non correctly however.

[Gnomatic]

I know not many care, but I was/am curious. I have several mobility chargers, and yes I know none are great, but I wanted to see which one of mine was best of a bad lot. As someone who's seriously considering doing the lithium conversion, this has also served as a way for me to familiarize myself with the PL8. And learn to crimp and solder etc. Also, since only one of chairs will be lithium, the rest still lead, I'll know which of my mobility chargers is best to use on those, if not charging with the PL8.

[Burgerman]

Which?

The best, fastest charger I have is my 40A 30V power supply. I just set its volts to 29.4 (odyssey) and plug it in. It shoves power in at 40A until it reaches 29.4V and then current just naturally falls away. If time allows I would leave it connected till Amps fall to about 1A or as low as possible as I sit at my computer.

If I need to go to the fridge for a drink, or out I just unplug and go.

It also charges much the same in my van but at 12v.

I charge at 12V at night too, to equalize the batteries,and to get a complete charge with a 30A 14.7V charger.

If left for a few days I use a Ctek 7A, 14.7V charger and leave it on. Often 2 or 3 chairs at once. And on my van. Theres 2 connected in my kitchen for months now. http://www.streettunedmotorsports.com/p ... harger.jpg

[Gnomatic]

Here's the graph of my ole Invacare Action Model# 16810 charger. Doesn't really seem to have a float stage. Settled in right around 28.584v before switching off. This was on the Gel setting. Pretty close to those big Lester chargers in appearance.

[Burgerman]

I suspect the charger saw a CV 28.X volts after 5 hours. And the thin wires act like a resistor so the batteries didn't... And it charged for about 14 hours so they will be mostly charged...

[Burgerman]

Try the PL8...

[Gnomatic]

Try the PL8...

I'm getting to that ......